We Have Also Come Down from Vaikuntha
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Oct 10, CANADA (SUN) — Srila Prabhupada clearly tells us, "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, August 6, 1973.
P.K. Vidyavan wrote:
"Gauragopala dasa puts himself at odds with the great Sampradaya Acarya, Srila Thakur Bhaktivinoda".
This comment is incorrect because it is the most recent Acarya in the chain of all the great Acarya's His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who gives us the correct understanding of the Brahma-Gaudiya-Sampradaya therefore Mr.Vidyans agument is not with me, it is with Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada in a lecture in Japan explains that no-one really falls down from Goloka, they only 'think', 'dream ' or 'imagine ' they do, their nitya-siddha body (svarupa) is always in Goloka even if one is 'DREAMING' they are in the mahat-tattva as nitya-baddha.
Srila Prabhupada - "Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things". (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia)
Although yes the following comment is correct - "Srila Prabhupada- No-one Falls from Vaikuntha Planet," However P.K. Vidyavan explanation and understanding of this is totally incorrect.
Srila Prabhupada - You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there, you are also already there. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport" (Letter to Madhudvisa Swam in Australia 1972)
Srila Prabhupada - "After all, the living entity falls down from the spiritual world, There is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down what to speak of this material world." - Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on July 4, 1974
Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being in his original spiritual form has all the senses, which are now material, being covered by the body and mind. Activities of the material senses are perverted reflections of spiritual pastimes." (Sri Isopanisad 11)
Srila Prabhupada teaches us - "These spirit souls and ALL spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities". (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the 'seen' disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position". (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia)
Darkness (nitya-baddha) cannot be left over in the presents of light (nitya-siddha) because light (nitya-siddha) dissipates all darkness (nitya-baddha) .
Therefore while one is 'aware' of their endless and beginingless nitya-siddha body (like the light), the concept of nitya-baddha (like the darkness) simply never existed or exists, such is the paradox of Goloka-Vrndavana and Vaikuntha
In other words while there is light, darkness does not exist similarly when one is situated as their full potential Krishna Conscious nitya-siddha-svarupa body, the nitya-baddha sub-consciousness does not and can not exist. Therefore, ones svarupa body is always Krishna Conscious by being always absorbed in serving Krishna just as the Sun is always the Sun even though it is covered by clouds or darkness..
As long as one is 'aware' of their full potential nitya-siddha body, one is not conscious that their lower inferior nitya-baddha consciousness even exists because factually it does not exist if one is fully Krishna conscious. In other words, just as darkness cannot exist in the presents of light, the nitya-baddha sub-conscious condition cannot exist in the presents of ones nitya-siddha body, which is the full potential and ultimate devotional awareness of the marginal living entity.
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972 made it very clear that we have NOT come from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Vishnu. I was there during this debate. We must not allow the pollution of other sects to influence the teachings of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON Movement.
Also at the time in the early 70s one ISKCON sannyasi was foolishly preaching we have all come from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti however Srila Prabhupada wrote to him not to preach that nonsense in his ISKCON Temples.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition) , he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna."
Here Srila Prabhupada clearly comments that we were all originally with Krishna and NOT Maha-Vishnu or His Vraja River even though it may appear that we do because of the enormous period of time the baddha-jiva remains in the mahat-tattva (possibly creation after creation after creation). As Srila Prabhupada says, the time is so long we don't know how long ago we fell from Vaikuntha.
Also it is nonsense to assert "Now the objection to this conclusion maybe that as above Srila Prabhupada wrote 'Krsna' not 'Maha-Visnu': "i.e., ...he was with Krishna." Srila Prabhupada clearly says we originate from Krishna directly and NOT Maha-Vishnu!
The bonafide conclusion is clear, Srila Prabhupada says we ALL 'originally' come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago, he does not say we came from Maha-Vishnu's Body, His Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, he says we came from Vaikuntha. In fact it is very clear that no jiva souls originate from Maha-Vishnu.
Those like BY: P.K. Vidyavan who advocate the Maha-Vishnu origination 'imagination' however will agree that Bhakti or devotional service is not performed in order to regain that dormant inactive state they have 'imagined' we have 'originated' from within Maha-Vishnu's Body or His Vraja River. The perfection of ones existence is to revive ones svarupa or the memory of being nitya siddha in Goloka selfless and lovingly serving Krishna.
To me it is so clear that EVERY LIVING ENTITY BE THEM VISHNU-TATTVA OR JIVA TATTVA HAVE ALL ORIGINALLY COME FROM KRISHNA IN GOLOKA-VRNDAVANA as direct expansions like Sankarsana, Balarama, Maha-Vishnu or marginal jiva-tattva expansions like us.
As a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, this is what he has taught us from the very beginning of his ISKCON Society, which is, long, long, long, long before we 'appear' to have come from the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, we came from Goloka.
Srila Prabhupada - "We are eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (nitya-siddha)?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually you are not eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, it ONLY appears that we are eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)" Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968
So what does Srila Prabhupada mean here?
Obviously we are presently eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha) outside of the personal active devotional pastimes of Vaikuntha and Goloka serving Krishna (As our nitya-siddha bodily self) because we are experiencing existence within the maha-tattva, as our dreaming nitya-baddha secondary conscious self.
This eternally conditioned state (nitya-baddha) can never enter the active pastimes in the Vaikuntha's or Goloka, just as darkness can never enter the light, in fact there is no such phenomenon.
The baddha-jiva is compared to darkness and the nitya-siddha is compared to the light. So where there is light (nitya-siddha) there can be no darkness (nitya-baddha). This is why the nitya-baddha cannot exist in Goloka or Vaikuntha.
In this way the nitya-baddha dreaming sub-consciousness is dissolved, as one becomes more Krishna Conscious, just as the darkness dissipates as the sun gradually rises.
As the 'eternally conditioned-nitya-baddha consciousness' becomes free from the mahat-tattva's ethereal and biological containers,' due to the gradual re-establishment of their original Krishna Consciousness, the 'eternally liberated nitya-siddha' becomes gradually realized.
This is what Srila Prabhupada means when he says, "We are eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha), but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated (nitya-siddha)? You are not eternally conditioned (nitya-baddha)". You are eternally liberated (nitya-siddha)"
Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - "When we "return" to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here.
Ravindra Svarup Prabhu - "We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position. We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth' (Ravindra Svarup dasa's web site)
Srila Prabhupada - No-one Falls from Vaikuntha Planet," The bonafide meaning of this comment is -
No-one really falls down from Vaikuntha or Goloka because of 'the eternal presents' of Goloka and Vaikuntha where EVERYTHING IS 'ETERNALLY PRESENT '.
This therefore makes it impossible for the nitya-siddha bodily form to fall down. In other words, no-one in their 'real authentic' (which means eternal svarupa body) can possible leave Vaikuntha anyway. Fall down is a sub-conscious fall down, not a bodily fall down. There is only one-way of leaving Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrndavana and that is via ones imagination, thoughts, and dreams. One can only 'sub-consciously' falldown (As nitya-baddha); they can never 'bodily' fall down (As nitya-siddha) because of the nature of the eternal present.
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all. (Lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1)
Srila Prabhupada - "You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned " (Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 196)
Srila Prabhupada - "Our contact with matter is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness, we break the dream. Similarly, we can break this So this situation" Srila Prabhupada lecture Tokyo Japan 1972: (Srimad Bhagavatam 2.9.1)
No 'body' in Goloka or Vaikuntha goes in, no 'body' goes out (unless Krsna thinks otherwise for pastime, but even then, ones nitya-siddha-svarupa body STILL remains in Krsnaloka, even if one is acting as nitya-siddha or nitya-baddha in the material world) The fact is, EVERYONE is already there in Goloka.
We are there right now; however, we are presently and foolishly trapped in our mundane dreams in the material creation, So the answer is we just have to be become Krsna Conscious so we can wake up from our nitya-baddha dream state and remember who we 'really' are.
What is the definition of the word 'real' on the highest level? It refers to Krsna and His imperishable abode and also to one's eternal nitya-siddha imperishable spiritual body one serves Krishna in Krsnaloka as. This nitya-siddha body is without end or beginning, meaning all nitya-siddha's NEVER leave Goloka because there is no concept of future or past, there is only the eternal 'now' in Krsnaloka and Vaikuntha and therefore we only 'think', 'dream' and 'imagine' we leave.
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krishna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada - "Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only" (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada - "The living of a miserable life in the material world by dint of the soul's choice is nicely illustrated by Milton in Paradise Lost. Similarly, by choice the soul can regain paradise and return home, back to Godhead". (Sri Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 5.22)
Srila Prabhupada - "Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what your relationship with Krishna is automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi". ((Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)
Srila Prabhupada - "Similarly, we have got an eternal relationship with Krishna, either as father or as lover or as servant, like that. So that is self-realisation. When you will be perfect in love, in loving Krishna, then in what status of life you will love, that you will under-.That will be revealed. That is called svarupa-siddhi". (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)
In conclusion, No jiva souls originate from Maha-Vishnu, the Vraja River or the impersonal Brahmajyoti (Sun Editorial)
Srila Prabhupada - 'No one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode. (Bhag. 3.16.26, purport)
This clearly means our nitya-siddha svarupa body can NEVER leave Goloka or Vaikuntha and that WE ONLY DREAM, THINK OR IMAGINE WE LEAVE. In this way the mahat-tattva is the destination for where such dreams go. It is there they are provided with temporary bodily forms created by Maha-Vishnu who is dreaming the entire mahat-tattva or material creation aspect of the Spiritual Sky.
I would like to correctly and humbly point out to P.K. Vidyavan that it is not me saying that we are eternally situated in Goloka and presently only 'dream' or 'think' we are not there, it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us that our original position is in Goloka from where we have presently fallen from.
In this way it is Srila Prabhupada explaining to us in very simple English that we ALL originate from Goloka.
Try to understand.
Hare Krsna, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Your fallen servant,
Gauragopala dasa
Pictures, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
