Misconceptions on Jiva-origin and Fall
BY: PATITA PAVANA DASA
Jul 17, 2010 — USA (SUN) — In this article, we will counter some of the points made by Kshamabuddhi dasa in his article, "Fall of the Jiva and Guru Wars.
On ‘how can an eternal associate fall from bhakti and become a worm in the dirt'
The Purana's describe that once Lord Indra was cursed by Brhaspati to become a hog in the dirt. Lord Brahma wanted to bring him back to heaven, but Indra refused because he was enjoying family life. According to the Taittiriya Upanisad 2.8.1 the happiness on Indra-loka is 10^14 better then the highest happiness on Earth. So if you stretch this a little more you can understand the fall from the spiritual world.
On "Perfect jiva's being as perfect as Krsna", and how jiva can fall from perfection
The spiritual world is perfect, but the living entity is not perfect (or purna). Bhaktivinoda Thakur's Jaiva Dharma describes the living entity, jiva as apurna-sakti. The jiva is limited in knowledge and bliss and can therefore do something imperfect (apurna). The jiva is apurna or incomplete and tatastha or marginal, it is not svarpa sakti living entity who is full of knowledge and bliss and who is always perfect (purna).
On "Radharani does not manifests jiva's"
Srila Prabhupada says in a lecture, on Srimad Bhagavatam 7.6.1 in Bombay December-17-1975: "We are expansions of Radharani".
Nor is the spectrum of female consorts of Srimati Radharani only svarupa sakti, kaya-vyuha because the Bhaktirasamrta sindhu describes " kamarupa-ragatmika bhakti sadhana" in 1.2.283 by which the jiva sakti living entity can become a gopi.
And, the all powerful original mother, mula- or adi-sakti can manifest all types of living beings on behalf of Krishna (mamaivamso' jiva loke Bg 15.7) as a queen does the household duties of a king. A ksatriya queen can do all the duties of the king, and the king can sit back and enjoy. According to Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya lila 20.165 Krsna expands the Visnu-tattva's, Gods and Saktyavesa-avatara's to dominate (the purusa functions). And according to CC adi 4.76 Radharani expands all the sakti's, energies, beginning with the milkmaids in Vraja and the queens in Dvaraka and Vaikuntha (the prakrti functions, the enjoyed and controlled).
This is also written by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur. Not in an "emotional outburst", as Kshamabuddhi prabhu says, but in a philosophical book, Sri Caitanya's Teachings. The context doesn't indicate that he is emotional and making a hyperbole. He writes 3 pages later:
"Siva and mahamaya are closely connected with the jiva. The connection of jiva with siva and mahamaya is established only when he is disassociated from the service of Sri Sri Radha Krsna."
And when saints are emotional, they always speak absolute truth under the direction of yogamaya. Sri Caitanya-caritamrta antya 5.97 gives the standard: no rasabhasa, overlapping of transcendental mellows and no siddhanta-viroddha or apa-siddhanta, theories contrary to the principles of the bhakti cult.
On " Lord Krsna and his lost servant unite again in Vraja"
"Lost Servant" means Krsna had that servant but then Krsna lost him. Now Krsna regained his lost servant. Unite again in Vrndavana means they were united in Vrndavana then the servant got lost and then came back again to unite with the master.
This is right. Some light in the darkness. It was meant to be some darkness.
On "The lord and devotee speak incomprehensible and mad in ecstasy"
This is when scripture states "no one falls from Goloka". In ecstasy they speak "who can leave us, it is so nice here".
According to Skanda Purana 2.2.27 this material world has 3˝ crores or 35 million brahmandas or universes. But the spiritual world is unlimited. The material world, the souls here and the chance that a soul falls to maya are thus nothing compared to the spiritual world. Because in mathematics a probability less than 10 ^-50 is zero. So, no one falls from Goloka.
On "In the absolute world there is no begin and end"
This is a misunderstanding and mistranslation of Brahma Samhita 5.56 - nimesArdhAkhyo vA vrajati na hi yarapi samayah - "not even a moment of time passes".
Srila Prabhupada explains that no time in the spiritual world means that the destructive feature of material time is absent. There is spiritual time. The astakaliya-lila revolves on and on. This means the 8 periods of the day with pastimes at the end of the night, morning pastimes, forenoon pastimes, midday pastimes, afternoon pastimes, dusk pastimes, evening pastimes and midnight pastimes, as described in Krsnahnika Kaumudi, Govinda lilamrta, Krsna bhavanamrta. There is beginning and end of every period.
Also, the jiva tatastha fallen soul goes to the spiritual world after the nightmare of maya. He left Krishna or Maha-Vishnu and goes Back to Godhead. The jiva began his material life, was gone from the spiritual world. That material life ended. Then the jiva began spiritual life again. So there is begin and end.
But there is no death and old age. And the spiritual forms of the houses and kunja's- forest huts do not get broken down by time. By the arrangement of Sri Krsna's lila-sakti there is eating, cooking, making of new flower garlands etc. This means blissful changing of services of the souls (= the cintamani's or atoms, the building blocks of the spiritual world see Brahma Samhita T 29 purport)
In this world also the atom (paramanus) are souls. But they are covered by the modes.
Srila Prabhupada says:
Lecture by Srila Prabhupada on SB 5.5 21-22
"Everything is generated from Krsna, but according to consciousness they are divided into superior and inferior energy. The more the consciousness is developed one comes to the superior platform of life.....
It is the same energy of the lord, but one is developed and the other is not developed. Like this there are varieties of developed consciousness within the material world."
Lecture by Srila Prabhupada on SB 3.26.5, Bombay, december 17, 1974
"Living entities, they have knowledge. That is the difference between matter and living entities. The dull matter still requires to be developed. There is knowledge, but it is covered.
But in the spiritual world the souls are surrounded by the spiritual atoms of earth, water, fire, air, ether. In the CC Adi-lila 5.53 we read: "The earth, water, fire, air and ether of Vaikuntha are all spiritual. Material elements are not found there".
These elements are composed of spiritual atoms, cintamani's, souls.
As Bhagavad gita 15.1 states urdhva-mulam adhah-sakham
This world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world.
On "Soul returned to Godhead not being allowed to remember the maya energy"
This is not so. In Brhad Bhagavatamrta 2.3.77-91, Ganesha is showing, seeing and describing many parties of Vaikuntha devotees who go down from the spiritual world beyond Siva or Mahesha-dhama, which is just in the spiritual world, to the many universes in the material world to preach and spread pure devotion.
Ganesa showed this to Gopakumara who was in Mahesha dhama (which is beyond the mahat-tattva or maya). He saw a group of attractive four-armed persons from Vaikuntha arrive. They were adorned with all the opulence's of youth, charm, beauty and good fortune.
They made the Saivites seem invisible by their effulgence and were immersed in the blissful rasa of singing the sublime glories of the lord
Also in Brihad Bhagavatamrta 1.3.46. we read:
"They travel freely wherever they want, protecting and promoting the cause of the Lord's devotees and the Lord's devotional service."
Commentary
"These eternally liberated Vaikuntha-vasis are always helping others. Acting in the material world, they protect sincere persons from misunderstanding the principles of devotional service and thereby falling down and being punished by the agents of Yama-raja. The Vaikuntha-vasis encourage the descent of advanced devotees into saintly families, act for the increased prosperity and influence of those devotees, and render unseen help to the devotees' preaching"
According to Sri Jiva Gosvami in Bhakti Sandarbha, anu 180, the souls returned again to the spiritual world are the best for going to the material world to save fallen souls, because they have experience of suffering, they can most feelingly bestow their grace sometimes recalling their own previous suffering in the same way as a person recalls a nightmare upon waking.
Mercy is the movement of the heart which occurs only when the suffering of another person touches one's heart. But the devotee in the spiritual world ever relishes supreme bliss. Therefore, suffering arising out of ignorance cannot penetrate his heart, just as darkness can never contact the sun.
Consequently, there is no possibility of compassion being aroused in the devotee's heart at the plight of such suffering.
On "Maha-Visnu creating new incomplete souls sorely deficient in bhakti"
Here Kshamabuddhi dasa creates a god who for his sadistic fun of playing ‘the saving hero', creates souls in the various hellish prison cells (bodies) of the material world. This kaka-vada he took from the book ‘in Vaikuntha not even the leaves fall'. The main author of this book changed his mind on this subject. He is now an anadir-patita-vadi. This philosophy is even more fallen. According to them there is no logic to the souls being in the material world. The material world is not needed. The spiritual world alone would be perfect and sufficient. Somehow the mistaken creation of the maya is an eternal fact. Even Krsna doesn't want it, but it is eternally designed like that, so He cannot change the dogma.
In Vaikuntha leaves ‘do' fall down. In one of the Six Gosvami's of Vrndavana's rasika books there is a description of Krsna waiting in a kunja for Radharani to come. Krsna hears the movement of dried fallen leaves on the ground, which is caused by the wind. He thinks this the sound of Radharani coming and walking on the dried leaves. He speaks: "Is it You, Radha?"
This kaka-vada is also the philosophy of the Calvinists and Madhvites. With this god "Gaudiya Vaishnavism has to grow and expand around the world"? Do the other than ISKCON Gaudiya Vaisnava groups want to stay behind and not grow up and fill in the gaps of undeveloped areas of philosophies.
Gaudiya Vaisnavism has to grow into the rationalistic scientific world and give logical answers. Teachers in the past have not presented this issue elaborately. We know one Radhakunda Mahanta who had no knowledge at all about this topic. But Srila Prabhupada knew.
Acyutananda: "In Krsna book it says that there was some color fighting in Dvaraka. They were throwing water color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. Will that be the first part of their fall down, to be in Vaikuntha and think of personal lust with Krsna's associates?
Prabhupada: Yes."
(Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)
On "not in sastra"
This time we will give a few quotes from the Narada Pancaratra.
yat tata-stham tu cid-rupam
sva-samvedyad vinirgatam ranjitam guna-ragena
sa jiva iti kathyate
The marginal potency is spiritual by nature, emanates from the self-cognizant, samvit- energy, becomes tainted by his attachment to the modes of nature and is called jiva.
3.2 The devotee who properly worships Lord Visnu (as described before) attains all desirable opulence in this life and returns to the abode of Lord Hari after quitting his material body (punar ante haritam brajety asav).
Comment: punar means again, back to where he came from (Hari). He was with Hari.
3.11.1 Vyasadeva said: A devotee who worships Sri Krsna every morning in the above mentioned way, with firm faith and devotion, certainly attains good fortune in this life and returns back to Godhead after death (suddhim param dhama bhuyat).
