The Hare Krsnas - Current Vaisnava Schools of Thought - The Gopi Bhava Club: Narayana Maharaja and ISKCON Leaders Seek Cooperation, 1994

[Lecture Transcript and Anonymous Letter re-posted from the old Vada section of HareKrsna.com]

Lectures delivered at the Kesavaji Gaudiya Math, Mathura
On the occasion of Visvarupa Mahosava - Sept. 19, 1994
Celebration of Srila Prabhupada taking sannyasa

Anonymous Letter from Devotee Providing Tape Transcript:

Date: 30 September, 1994

Camp: Krishna Balarama Mandir, Vrindavana

Dear Maharajas,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

In the past 4 years here in Vrindavana we have been experiencing an increasingly disturbed atmosphere with regard to the activities of the "Gopi Bhava Club".

Initially these devotees merely grouped together, snubbing and pointedly ostracizing those they considered not advanced enough to merit their association. As they chose to associate with uninitiated devotees as well as Srila Prabhupada's disciples and grand disciples, it became rather bewildering to determine what sort of criteria they were using to select those deemed suitable for their association, especially since, as we now know, they were involved in reading all sorts of "rasa shastras," etc., and obviously many of the devotees involved had never yet read Srila Prabhupada's books, even once.

This behavior caused grief and bewilderment to many of us they black-balled from their club as we had no idea what was going on or why we were treated as we were. As it stands now, obviously we have a secret sect which has developed within ISKCON, with a private membership

In the past year as more information has become available, devotees have begun to form two very distinct groups - those who have remained chaste and loyal to Srila Prabhupada, and those who now openly and blatantly associate with Narayan Maharaja and in general avoid the rest of us. This development, not of our choosing, has caused a very serious split to develop here in Vrindavana, one which, due to its nature, can only continue to grow within the Movement as the poison spreads, just as Srila Prabhupada predicted with regard to the earlier Gopi Bhava Club.

Every other day the two sides trade off speakers in the Srimad Bhagavatam class, both sides attempting either to defeat the other or to explain their position. As many of us on "Srila Prabhupada's side", are also interested in increasing and deepening our Krishna Consciousness, this is not a question of whether or not one is interested in or favors "gopi bhava' or not. Rather, it is more a question of how one should go about this.

We even have devotees saying (privately), that since Srila Prabhupada did not reveal his Siddha Svarupa, this creates doubts in their minds. I am not well informed on this subject, but I have heard from some devotees that in our disciplic line there has been only one other acharya who did not reveal his Siddha Deha, and that was, I think, Shyamananda Prabhu. (About this I may be mistaken.) There are also rumors that Kesava Maharaja gave Narayan Maharaja Siddha Pranali, which as far as we know was not a procedure which Srila Prabhupada favored. These rumors only increase the attraction of Narayan Maharaja for many and decrease their faith in Srila Prabhupada and our Movement.

If these activities involved only a few insignificant devotees, perhaps all this could be discounted, but due to the nature of those involved and the way things have developed thus far, I consider this situation to be a very alarming one, and I feel very distressed that those of you senior leaders whom we have heard disapprove of the situation are not speaking out.

In order to provide you with more information, I am enclosing a transcript of the talks given by TKG, Giriraja S., Vinode Vani Prabhu, and N. M. are the recent commemoration of Srila Prabhupada's taking Sannyas, held at the Gaudiya Math in Mathura.

In addition, other disturbing events and information are the following:

1. GB Club members are actively proselytizing for their side by handing out Giriraja Swami's paper which advocates merging with the Gaudiya Math entitled "Srila Prabhupada's last instruction: Cooperate".

I presume that you may have seen this document as it was presented at the GBC meetings, but just in case, I am enclosing a copy. This paper is obviously slanted and one who has studied Srila Prabhupada's letters can immediately see that the initial letters he wrote in the early 60s and 70s convey a skeptical tone, but one of willingness to try for more cooperation with his godbrothers. By 974, however, it becomes quite clear that Srila Prabhupada did not wish us to have anything to do with them. I have taken their paper and laid it out beside the letters to Prabhupada's godbrothers, and it is very plain to see.

I do have one question, however, regarding their statements that Srila Prabhupada established a Trust in his last days upon which he appointed TKG, Giriraja S., Madhav Maharaja, etc. Exactly what is the purpose of this Trust? They imply that it was set up for the express purpose of increasing relations and cooperation with the various Gaudiya Maths, with an ultimate aim of merging the two organizations. Perhaps this statement appears rather speculative, but I hope you will read over the enclosed transcript of the talks given by TKG and Giriraja S. regarding this pint.

In addition, just prior to the last GBC meetings in Mayapur last year, I happened to run into a godsister of ours here in Vrindavana named Saumiya Dasi (from France). She is currently living in Bhuvanesvara working on the Centennial. She lived in Mathura in the Gaudiya Math for two months, I think last year, and was very upset by what she observed there. She reported many senior devotees such as Karta d. d., wife of Virabahu Prabhu were frequently seen with their heads on N. M.'s feet. They were attending "private classes" with N. M., something which has now become common knowledge. However, one day she met them all coming out of the Math in a very euphoric mood and asked what they were celebrating. Their reply was that they were celebrating the reunification of Gaudiya Math with ISKCON. At the time it sounded so absurd I completely ignored it. Now many of us are wondering...

2. Many newer devotees visiting Vrindavana flock to Yadurani for training an association, something many of us view as undesirable. The fact that she does not deny having accepted a "nickname" (Shyamarani) from N. M., has given donations as large as $5,000 to him, as well as every painting she has done since she arrived here 3 years ago does not set a very good example. In many ways her preaching is also quite off. One example is a class for new devotees in which Narayani d. d., an older Prabhupada disciple and in India since the beginning asked her if perhaps Bhagavad-gita would be more appropriate for new devotees than gopi bhava topics. Yadurani's reply was that "familiarity breeds contempt." When questioned later about some of these comments, she always denies them, although they are being reported by very honest and reliable devotees.

Many ladies are qualified to travel and preach whose activities are without question. We would request that you seek out some of these ladies and invite them to your zones if you require lady preachers. I personally would very much like to preach, have a Deity given to me personally by Srila Prabhupada, and was in charge of training women in L. A. when Srila Prabhupada was present. As you will remember, L. A. was the center where all devotees on that side of the U. S. were sent for training. If you feel that this issue is one of importance and are worried about having its poisonous effects spread further within our Movement, please invite preachers to your zones who still have faith in the process as it has been given to us by Srila Prabhupada.

3. The current trend among GB Club members is to proselytize and recruit, even among new and uninitiated devotees. Those devotees who do not indicate interest in participating or visiting N. M. are pointedly shunned and ostracized thereafter. Many of us are worried seeing their blatant invitations made via announcements at Mangal Arotik inviting devotees to various functions at the Mathura Gaudiya Math as well as the Math here in Vrindavana where N. M. stays when visiting Vrindavana, as well as the fact that the majority of them avoid Mangal Arotik and the rest of the morning program, including Srimad Bhagavatam class, and are known to be reading all sorts of rasa shastras, books by babas in Radha Kund, Gadadhar Pran in Mayapur, etc. Such examples may be weakening the faith of the devotees in Srila Prabhupada. Evidence of this is the fact that many living here in ISKCON Vrindavana either already have or are planning to take initiation from N. M. or various and sundry other sadhus and babas around the Dhama, including Radha Kund. What now appears to be a trickle may very well become a flood, if these issues continue to be avoided and remain unchallenged by the GBC and other senior figures within our Movement.

One example is the fact that just recently a lady came here from Germany who has been in ISKCON for the past 8 years. She just took initiation from a baba in Radha Kund who gave her siddha pranali 2 weeks after her diksa. This lady now stays here in Vrindavana and casually mingles with our devotees.

In this regard, Srimati d. d., a Harikesa M. disciple from Mayapur visited here just a few days back to associate with the GB Club. I had a brief chat with her in which she informed me that she felt Siddha Pranali was perfectly bona fide as both Bhaktivinode Thakur and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati had given Siddha Pranali. I asked her if she was aware that her gurudeva might not approve of this viewpoint and she replied that she had spoken with Harikesa M. and he had no objection to this line of understanding. Is this true?

[break] we find that many devotees vary in [break] the Movement have never read Srila Prabhupada's books, even one time through. All the above have combined to create a very confused atmosphere, ripe for sahajiya tendencies to rear their ugly head, just as Srila Prabhupada warned earlier regarding the first GB Club. We are finding that we have to fight to convince people that they should remain within ISKCON, or even to get them to understand who Srila Prabhupada was and is. Please note the talk given by Vinode Vani d. d. on the enclosed transcript. Pretty sad days, especially as this is Srila Prabhupada's home and Samadhi, not New Vrindavana or some other less significant place. By the time the Centennial rolls around, how will we be able to glorify Srila Prabhupada if we continue to ignore this situation, and who will be left around to do so who is not merely paying lip service while actually worshiping N. M. by example and words.

Such a trend is also bearing some other very hellish and rotten fruits. One devotee came through here recently telling people that Srila Prabhupada was like a sweeper, who swept us all up so that these great jewels of paramahamsas could instruct us in the "real thing"!

As it is, we have one confirmed N. M. disciple teaching in the Gurukula, Vyjantimala, wife of Narada Muni and one devotee, Yasoda d. d. who has N. M. on her altar and may have already taken diksa from him. (There are many devotees who keep a picture of N. M. on their altars. When Arca Vigraha d. d., Giriraja S.'s disciple, was dying, I visited her daily, and the entire ashrama, which is Giriraja S.'s home here in Vrindavana was filled with N. M. photos. All the ladies, at least, had him on their altars, in the kitchen, etc. Shanti d. d., one of Yadurani's servants also has a photo of him on her altar. Both she and Yasoda live in temple accommodations. In addition, we have Mukunda Das, one of his disciples as the Head Pujari for Krishna Balarama Mandir. There are quite a few other devotees here who are planning to take initiation from him and live here in our facilities. Others who have a diksa in ISKCON may have taken reinitiation from him. We have heard as many as 16 devotees have been reinitiated, but due to the fearful atmosphere surrounding this situation, it is difficult to get those devotees who have the information to come forward or be willing to testify should we be called on to back up our information. As the GB Club members are in the majority here, the prevailing attitude is that all this is perfectly all right. N. M. has no objection to their living and serving here after taking diksa from him, so why should we? We have heard that devotees now jokingly call this temple the Krishna Balarama Gaudiya Math. Well, we're not laughing.

Please take note of the section of the transcription enclosed where N. M. introduces the senior lady disciples of Srila Prabhupada. He begins with Aditya and Vrindavana Vilasini after which TKG interjects, Karta, N. M., Karta, only to have N. M. respond with, "Yes, Gaura Priya Karta". Yadurani tells me that the new name N. M. gave her, Shyamarani is only a nickname. If proof is requested regarding Karta's "nickname", here it is, right from N. M.'s own lips.

One lady disciple of Srila Prabhupada in Vrindavana only 3 months attended the Mathura event, found that the Gopi Bhavers pointedly avoided her and abruptly left the next day for Australia. She indicated she was shocked and very disturbed by the split she could see occurring in ISKCON due to this situation, and she was very much aggrieved at the way she was treated as a complete outsider at Prabhupada's Sannyas commemoration by her own godsisters. Actually, most of us were also quite shocked to listen to the tape, especially the talk given by Vinode Vani wherein she states that she never knew Srila Prabhupada, but now she has N. M.!

To those of us who love Srila Prabhupada so much, to see his own disciples claiming they don't know him is very heart-rending. We wonder how, after serving Srila Prabhupada for so many years, and seeing him sacrifice everything so that we could have a chance to become Krishna Conscious, his disciples could come to his home and Samadhi here is Vrindavana and make these kinds of statements. As the majority of these people are the ones teaching our children, what can we expect in the future?

Many devotees have confided to me that they are spending sleepless nights because they are so disturbed over what they see transpiring here. Many cry (both men and women) and are distraught for days after first becoming aware of the extent and gravity of the situation here. We fear a serious split may be rapidly developing within our Movement. We also fear that many grave offenses are being made to Srila Prabhupada and that many innocent and younger devotees are being seriously misled.

One interesting facet of the situation is that this year, now that more of us are becoming aware of what is actually going on, we suddenly find that the gopi bhavers, many of whom previously were moaning on about how they hated going to the West to preach and only wanted to "roll in the dust of Vrindavana" as Karta d. d. so quaintly put, are now in a very Rah! Rah! Prabhupada mood. Many devotees have mentioned it and noticed how many who last year had their heads all over N. M.'s feet are now beating their breasts and proclaiming how much they care for Srila Prabhupada. I think, however, the Mathura transcript really paints an accurate picture of their feelings at this point in time.

Given all the above, I hope you can understand that many of us are very disturbed. We are also wondering why those of you whom we have heard disagree with these people never visit Vrindavana. Unfortunately, ignoring the goings on here will not make it go away.

Many of us feel we are jeopardizing our right to stay and serve in Vrindavana by speaking out. However, there are still many innocent devotees coming here that need to be encouraged and given strong association as well as a clear understanding of the philosophy. (incidentally I, at least, try to do this without directly attacking the other side. However, many devotees only a year or two in the Movement seem to know quite a bit about what is going on and they are asking for clear answers. As they see only big, big devotees from the other side here, and see the kind of example they are setting it becomes very difficult to convince them there is anything wrong with what is going on here. It is also rather a lonely battle without some backup and support from senior devotees. Until just recently most devotees felt that it was useless to do anything. There are too few of us and the other side is so powerful it appeared to be an almost hopeless situation. Nonetheless, we felt that Srila Prabhupada, who was so fearless and such a lion, always striding forth to do battle with the opposing elements, would be very disappointed with us if we sat here like a bunch of mice.

Therefore, I, for one, would like to cordially invite all of you to visit Vrindavana. Giriraja S. and TKG are here for the next 3 months unless the plague drives them out, so we humbly invite you to come and spend at least a few days during Kartik. We would all feel very enlivened and happy to get your association. And if you feel unable to come, could you please be so kind and merciful as to drop me a line to let me know that you are aware of the situation and perhaps to provide us with your viewpoints on the situation and your advice?

The last thing is that N. M.'s ISKCON followers frequently tell us that N. M. helps them to better understand Srila Prabhupada, a point he again mentions when he says that the rest of us are trying to limit Srila Prabhupada with our "little West mentality". He goes on to truthfully state something which any chaste disciple of Srila Prabhupada already knows, not through the mind but due to their love and devotion to their spiritual master within the heart, that Srila Prabhupada was beyond us "in lakhs of time, lakhs of births". Of course he was, but to the disciple who follows his spiritual master blindly, with all faith, love and devotion, everything becomes revealed. To one who outwardly serves one swami carefully at home while secretly going to meet another, to whom they have also given their heart, what will ever be revealed?

The night before attending the Mathura event, one chaste disciple had a dream. She was going down a road, and she came upon a dead cow. Going further she came upon another, and another and another. Upon waking she began to wonder what inauspiciousness would overtake her in the course of the day. Then she went to Mathura to attend the commemoration of Srila Prabhupada's taking sannyasa.

P.S. In regard to the transcript of the Mathura event commemorating Srila Prabhupada's Sannyasa ceremony, the talks of both TKG and Giriraja S. as well as many of N. M.'s comments will further back up our concerns regarding what appears to be an attempt to unify ISKCON with at least the Keshav Gaudiya Math in Mathura. Other devotees visiting Vrindavana during the current period also are voicing concerns that this could be a cleverly orchestrated plan by TKG to establish first N. M. as the next acharya of ISKCON, and thereafter, as N. M. is advanced in years and has a heart problem, and as TKG and Giriraja S. are already established as his most intimate and elevated followers, this would place them as the undisputed kings of ISKCON.

In addition, they appear to be accepting some very questionable opinions from N. M. about Srila Prabhupada, who he is and was, and about the value of what he did by spreading Krsna Consciousness all over the world. As the statements N. M. makes are surprising, to say the least, I hope you will understand that many of us who have read this transcript are upset.

Devotees not living here in Vrindavana may not be acquainted with any of this information, or the subtleties involved. In addition, N. M. speaks in such a way that sometimes it is difficult to understand. In the following comments I have therefore highlighted portions of the transcript in an effort to bring out what seem to be the most significant points.

Please refer to page 8 of the transcript where N. M. says:

"...They think this to me. That I am not...respecting Swamiji. He was my siksa guru but he also my friend. They should not think that I should treat as they are treating to their master. I had something special than them...but they don't realize these things. So I am sorry and I...tell them to excuse me for this fault.

So I am going to tell something by this...I told before. I am coming to the same point. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to this world He is the same as Krsna...."

COMMENT: At this pint N. M. goes on to explain that when Lord Caitanya comes, He is Krsna Himself and therefore all the different forms of Krsna are present, from Shyamasundar and Srimati Radharani down to Dwarkadish Krsna, all the Visnu forms, etc. Then he talks about how Lord Caitanya defeated so many big, big pandits, etc., even when a small boy, and later preached in South India. The N. M. states:

N. M.: "He went to Puri and looked everywhere and preached the name everywhere. This is certainly a very strange fact. But who did it? Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself? Radha and Krsna jugal? Or anyone else did it. Who did? Mahavisnu did all these things. Understand?"

"This is not the real business of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. You should understand this. His business was...rasa-niryasa...and to give some sprinkles to all others. Not these all other strange things. These are of Mahavisnu, because He is avatara. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not Yugavatara. But why He did? Because worldly persons, general persons, those who are not rasika vaisnavas, they don't know tattva, they have not gone to association with any Vaisnava, they think that this is a very good thing. To preach whole world...the name of Krsna...and to give Gita sandesha...is the whole thing. This was done by...you should know."

COMMENT: Then N. M. lets the bomb drop in the next few lines, which are the conclusion to all that he was elaborating before regarding how Krsna does not preach, that is merely Visnu, and that worldly persons who have not associated with a rasika vaisnava (one following raganuga bhakti in the mood of gopi bhava, such as himself) think that to preach to the whole world the name of Krsna and to give Bhagavad-gita is a very good thing.

N. M.: "So I want to say that your Prabhupada has given these things...only these things...and not beyond these things. Then he was only the servant of Mahavisnu, not of Krsna. A strange thing...fact...but for them who are ignorant."

COMMENT: Then he goes on to elaborate on what a person who is not ignorant, but is wise should do:

NM: (Continuing from above) But those who are wise and have done initiation from any rasika vaisnava, bhava bhakta of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who like Raya Ramananda, like Svarupa Damodara, like Rupa Gosvami, like Ragunatha Gosvami, and their generations up to Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur, Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupda and my Gurudeva. Those who have given their heart to them and have realized anything...very little...they can realize these things."

COMMENT: So there you have it. Srila Prabhupada was not more than a servant of Mahavisnu, not of Krsna. According to him, those who are wise will take initiation from a rasika Vaisnava (such as himself). You may note also that in the parampara he lists, he does not mention Srila Prabhupada, but rather inserts his guru after Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati.

He also gives a hint as to the state of consciousness of the ISKCON devotees who are now following him when he says, "Those who have given their heart to them..." (the rasika Vaisnavas).

What will be the future of our Movement if we allow this sort of preaching to enter in? It is no wonder they have refused to let anyone see the tapes of the "private classes" he gave for the past few years for the Gopi Bhava Club members at his Math in Mathura. Just this one is quite enough!

So this is the person that many of the leading figures in our Movement have chosen to follow. In addition to the future of our Movement if we allow this to continue, what can be the fate of those who allow their guru, especially one of the stature and power of Srila Prabhupada, to be described in this manner in a public forum in front of his disciples and grand disciples on the commemoration of his taking of Sannyas?

Another insight into what TKG and his followers, who are already strongly advocating merging with the Gaudiya Math, may be contemplating for ISKCON devotees then follows when N. M. goes on to state that actually all the rest of us, who "have no mind to think all these things," should also become the recipients of his "mercy". And how can that be done?

NM: "...At first, if any temple is going on...we'll have to clear..."

TKG: "the ground."

NM: "The thorns are there, the trees having thorns...useless...to be cut, and to give some land."

COMMENT: Here apparently N. M. refers to those of us, previously referred to as followers of Hanuman and Arjuna, who remain chaste and faithful to Srila Prabhupada, and are disturbed by what we are seeing gong on here in Vrindavana between N. M. and the Gopi Bhava Club clique. Apparently we are to be cut so that, as he mentions when he opens the function, "...his senior devotees who were the right and left hands of Srila Swamiji...Also they were managing the whole thing from his early preaching..." will have power to instill the Gopi Bhava Club mentality as the main focus of ISKCON. (There are some other outcomes of this sort of focus - one being that the Gopi Bhava Club members are known to have read extremely intimate pastimes of Radha and Krishna, meant for those who are beyond anartha nivritti to a dying 19-year-old girl just a few years in the Movement.)

N. M.: (Continuing from above): But if there is a tamal tree, we should try to save it. (Laughter) We should not cut this...and if...(laughter and chanting Mahamantra)...If there is a very beautiful tamal tree, and if there is a stone, like a stone, but not a stone...Giriraja...and we should place there and erect a very good temple there. But to dig and to sweep is not everything."

COMMENT: We had heard one Gopi Bhava member in Vrindavana was preaching that Srila Prabhupada was like a sweeper, who swept us all up so that these great jewels of paramahamsas could instruct us in the "real thing". This appears to be a confirmation of this story.

N. M.: (Continuing from above): To dig for basement of this big temple is not everything. So Swamiji has first cleared the atmosphere...

TKG: Prepared the ground...

COMMENT: We also were told by one devotee who was translating for N. M. during a Hindi lecture that he stated that Srila Prabhupada had "prepared the soil, but did not plant the seed of Bhakti". The devotee translating told me that it was such an offensive statement that he did not translate it into English.

NM: Prepared the ground...by preaching name and the sandesh of Gita...he prepared (etc.)

COMMENT: The remainder of his talk is basically to again apologize if he has committed any offense to the rest of us poor fools who have no mind for these things and to state that Srila Prabhupada only gave us the beginning and if we are lucky, "one day if they are pure-hearted...sincere. If they are fully sincere serving his...Prabhupada...then one day...he will come and...they will be fortunate to understand these things."

I have only two further comments to add, one being that it is customary among Indians when they want to insult someone that they first flatter the person. Therefore you will see in various parts of the transcript N. M. refers to Srila Prabhupada in other ways - one time as his siksa guru and his friend, another time as beloved of Radhika and Lord Caitanya. However, the main comments, all coming basically in one long explanation beginning on Page 8 appear to be the most comprehensive and clear regarding his true opinion.

Speakers:
H. H. Narayana Maharaja (introductory speech first; lecture at end)
H. H. Tamal Krsna Maharaja
H. H. Giriraja Swami
Her Grace Vinod Vani Devi Dasi
(All lectures unedited)

H. H. Narayana Maharaja: Today...very auspicious day...the very auspicious and very famous mahapurusa appeared to take birth place on the day of Nadhotsava. And he was born in very high Vaisnava family...in the same gaura desa where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu...(break) Nityananda Prabhu took birth, Advaita Acharya...and all other auspicious persons took birth. And who went from this world to his beloved Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu...or Sri Radha-Krsna conjugal...in very sacred month Kartika. Very auspicious day.

And he took also sannyasa order on a very auspicious day of Srila Visvarupa, the elder brother of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu went to souther India to know where his elder brother sannyasi has done. And for this he went to souther India and met Raya Ramananda, who was a very auspicious person. He was Visahka devi...

So today is very auspicious day...where we are sitting in Sri Kesavaji Gaudiya Math...in this very place he took sannyasa order from our divine Gurudeva, nitya lila pravistha Om Visnupada Sri-Sri Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja. Here...we have gathered here...to...this...to cultivate...pure...jivan of Swamiji.

I want to hear from his senior devotees who were the right and left hands of Srila Swamiji. Also they were managing the whole thing fro his early preaching. They were with him from the early days when he went from India to Western countries...and in very young...kisore age...17, 16, 20, 21, 22...very beautiful features like you are seeing here...See Tamal Krsna Swami, Giriraja Swami...Dina Bandhu prabhu...

TKG: Purusatraya Swami, Visnu Swami, Tat Pur Swami, Dina Bandhu prabhu...

Narayana Maharaja: and especially all the very dear senior devotees present here, like Mata...Aditya devi...

TKG: Vrndavana Vilasini, Karta devi...Vinod vani...

Narayana Maharaja: Vinod vani...

TKG: Karta

Narayana Maharaja: Gaura priya - Karta. So many devotees are here. I think that must some remembrance in their hearts and mind and by hearing their valuable things that they have taken from...received from their holy master, those who have not see him, by that time...by them they will see through them. I first pray the...right hand of Swamiji...who had kept his name remembering Krsna, Tamal. Tamal is very dear to Srimati Radhika so perhaps he has...she was the pala dasi...very near and dear to Srimati Radhika. He has kept his name...very dear name...Tamal. So I request him...Swami Tamal Krsna to give me the remembrance about Swamiji, and his valuable upadesh, siksa... of Swamiji he has received from...he will speak to us...You can come and sit here.

Tamal Krsna Maharaja: First of all, I would like to offer my most respectful humble obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master, Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Astotara sata Sri Srimad A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and unto his sannyasa guru, Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Astotara sata Sri Srimad Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja. To Bhakti Prajnana Maharaja's very dear disciple who is presiding over this meeting today, Sri Srimad Pujapada Bhaktivedanta Narayana Swami Maharaja, as well as I want to offer my humble obeisances to all of the sannyasis and senior godbrothers and godsisters who are here, and to all the Vaisnavas who have assembled.

So Narayana Maharaja (break) sees even lowly creatures as being dear to Srimati Radhika, but although he has given the meaning of tamal as being very dear to Srimati Radharani, it is also known that the tamal tree has very bitter leaves and bitter fruit and the animals...even the goats and cows cannot make any use of the leaves from this tree.

So I think that Srila Prabhupada gave me this name, he surely saw my own disqualification, in so many ways, being a very bitter person. So he must have given me that name remembering the poor qualities of the tamal tree. But because the tamal tree resembles in appearance to Srimati Radharani of Lord Krsna, so it is very dear to Srimati Radharani and to all those who follow her. So I think that because of my contact with Srila Prabhupada and with all of those who have served Srila Prabhupada, including Srila Narayana Maharaja, so even though I have so many poor qualifications, now something is reminding him of Krsna.

The last instruction which Srila Prabhupada gave to the devotees is that they should cooperate together. I see how this meeting today is the symptom of such cooperation. Because we are coming from an institution known as ISKCON and we are sitting in a different institution. And yet we don't sit in any way in a divided way, but we have been invited here with great love in very much the same way as our Srila Prabhupada was invited in 1959, by his beloved godbrother Srila Kesava Goswami Maharaja.

It reminds me so much of the same situation. That just as Srila Narayana Maharaja invited our Srila Prabhupada to come here, to reside here, to serve here, and one day to take sannyas here. So he has also invited all of us to come here today. I think it is significant to see how...at the time Srila Prabhupada was living as a vanaprastha in Vrndavana at the Radha Damodara Temple...and he was...(TKG checks out where it was exactly but wasn't sure).

Anyway...he...at the time before that he was not a sannyasi. So actually he had no intention to immediately to take sannyas, but so many persons especially Srila Narayana Maharaja was repeatedly requesting him...and Srila Kesava Maharaja was repeatedly requesting...you should take sannyas. You are so qualified...you are very, very learned person...you have all the good qualities of a pure Vaisnava. So to fulfill the mission of Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada...you should take sannyas.

Srila Prabhupada said to us he didn't want to, and then his guru maharaja appeared and told him to take sannyas. And still he was very fearful but he was practically pushed and pushed and pushed by his godbrother and the disciple of his godbrother to take sannyas. It was in this very place that the sannyas ceremony took place. Srila Narayana Maharaja personally performed the fire sacrifice. He took Srila Prabhupada to another room, to give him the kaupina that the sannyasi puts on. And he assisted in so many ways with his sannyas ceremony.

Later on, at the time of the disappearance of Srila Kesava Goswami Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada was in Seattle at the time 1968 and I happened to be fortunate to be with him at the time. This news came and I saw how Srila Prabhupada began to weep and cry so much out of separation for his beloved godbrother. He felt so much sorry that his godbrother was departed that he felt and remembered so much his guru maharaja. So this godbrother in every way he felt that his guru maharaja had come to him through his godbrother.

I think that in the same way...so many of us get the same feeling when we are with Srila Narayana Maharaja. That we feel that our guru maharaja Srila Prabhupada is coming to us through him. And therefore, we feel so much love and affection for him, because we see that the entire arrangement has been made by Krsna, and by our spiritual master because the spiritual master continues to guide the disciple. The spiritual master never leaves the disciple at any time. So sometimes he personally works and sometimes he works through another person.

So Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura sometimes was personally working to direct Srila Prabhupada, and another time he worked through Srila Prabhupada's godbrother, Srila Kesava Goswami Maharaja. In the same way, I feel that so many instructions I received from Srila Prabhupada, and so many instructions I continue to receive from him through my very dear well-wisher Srila Narayana Maharaja. So I see many similarities between this situation...

After the disappearance of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura many societies were formed...Srila Prabhupada took shelter of one of these. Because of his respect and admiration for Srila Kesava Goswami Maharaja, he took shelter here. He did not consider so much the fact that the institute had a different name but he considered how the person who was the head of the institution imbibed all of the qualities that he had seen in his Guru Maharaja. I think we should not so much be concerned about the names of the institutions but we should see what is the fruit on the tree. If the fruit tastes the same, then the tree must be one tree. We should not worry if it is this branch or that branch, but we should see what is the taste of the fruit.

So, whatever I experienced in my association with Srila Prabhupada, I am experiencing that same taste today when I come here, when I sit in this assembly, and whenever I get good association of Srila Narayana Maharaja I find the same taste of the fruits. And therefore, I know that the tree is one, and I don't concern myself with the external names of societies - to be worried that this is one institution or that is another institution.

Prabhupada formed...at the end of his manifest pastimes...he formed this charity trust called Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. It was the last managerial act that Srila Prabhupada made and the purpose was to unite all the Gaudiya Vaisnavas. And he named on that trust two of his godbrothers, Pujapada Sri Madhava Maharaja and Pujapada Madusadana Maharaja. It's very clearly the expressed will...the final instruction should be considered the most important instruction...and it was not simply Prabhupada's instruction that the members of ISKCON cooperate, but it was his instruction that they also cooperate with all of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Therefore, Prabhupada made an official document...formed a trust just to foster this cooperation.

So we can see the mood of our hosts here today that they want us to be here...that they feel sorry if there are not enough of us here. When I said to him, I told Srila Narayana Maharaja 100 have come, he said, "Why only 100? Why not 125?" Then he said, "Where are all the senior persons?" I said they are overseas preaching...because he wants so much the association of ISKCON devotees. He loves them very dearly...because they remind him of the person who they are all dependent upon - Srila Prabhupada, who was so dear to Srila Narayana Maharaja.

So you asked me to speak something about siksa so I tried to say something about the mood of cooperation. I pray that all the devotees who are assembled here and all the members of ISKCON should try to broaden their vision and actually try to embrace the mood of real Krsna consciousness, and to see who Krsna consciousness is reposed in, and to embrace that person as being most dear. Then our movement will actually flourish. Otherwise we are not going to be very much better than the Christians and the various other sects who divide the world and are against different groups simply because they don't belong to the same organization. We should never allow that type of hatred or envy or malice to block our bhakti. Certainly Caitanya Mahaprabhu will not appreciate it and it will be impossible to develop genuine love for jugal kisore Radha-Krsna if we have this type of mode - resentment towards others simply because of some difference...of who is my father.

The whole point of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission was to give shelter to all the conditioned souls in the world and to all living beings. So we should make no distinction like this, but we should see who is actually following the teachings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and those persons we should bring very close to ourselves.

The instruction is that one should associate with those who are of a similar temperament. So our line of Caitanya Mahaprabhu is to become the dearmost maidservant of Srimate Radhika. And those who are giving us nourishment and encouragement to serve the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and to be able to appreciate the mood of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, those persons we should keep very, very close, near and dear to us. Hare Krsna.

H. H. Giriraja Maharaja: om ajnana timirandasya...sri caitanya mano bhistam...vande ham sri guru...vancha kalpatarubhyas ca...sri krsna caitanya...

hare krsna...I offer my most respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my divine master Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami and to his spiritual master, Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and to his sannyas guru Sri Srimad Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Goswami Maharaja and to all of the Vaisnavas.

Hearing his holiness Tamal Krsna Goswami speak, I remembered one small incident that took place last week. I was in the hospital and one devotee had given me a tape of kirtans here on Janmastami. So lying on the bed and hearing the tape...immediately I felt as if I were with Srila Prabhupada in New York City around 1969, and all the devotees had gathered in the temple room and they were anxiously awaiting Srila Prabhupada to come in the temple room.

Then I felt I was here at the Kesavaji Gaudiya Math and all of the devotees were similarly awaiting Srila Narayana Maharaja to come in the temple room. And the atmosphere was the same. The mood was the same. Although in one sense New York City if far from Mathura, and in one sense the devotees in ISKCON in the 1960s were quite different from the devotees here in Mathura. But still the same mood and the same atmosphere prevailed.

So I thought, how has this experience come? I thought the only explanation is that our Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayana Maharaja are the same. Although they are different individuals with distinct personalities, but still they are the same. And therefore, the mood was the same in the presence of both.

From the hospital I came here to the Math and I described my experience to Srila Narayana Maharaja - how he and our Srila Prabhupada were the same. And I explained how I thought they were the same. I said that our Srila Prabhupada came from Srimati Radhika and you also came from Srimate Radhika. Then he joked, that, "Yes, your Prabhupada has come from Srimate Radhika but I have come from Karanadakasayi Visnu." Then I said that both were the same because Srila Prabhupada was the paliya dasi of Srimati Radhika and Srila Narayana Maharaja is also paliya dasi of Srimate Radhika. Again Srila Narayana Maharaja joked that, "Your Srila Prabhupada is paliya dasi of Srimati Radhika, but I am palya dasi of Kamsa."

Then I though I can't fall into the same trap again. Really I thought that the third characteristic that they shared was that they both had come into the material world to save the fallen souls. And that is certainly true.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura wanted that Krsna consciousness should be preached throughout the world. Srila Prabhupada took up the mission and his sannyas is significant because without sannyas he was not ready to preach...to take up the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura in the same way. And being fully in tune with the desire of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, Srila Kesava Maharaja and Srila Narayana Maharaja encouraged our Srila Prabhupada to take sannyas and fully execute the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Therefore, we are completely indebted to them...because if Srila Prabhupada had not come to the West where would we be now?

About six weeks ago I took the opportunity to do Govardhana parikrama. And when I came to Radha Kunda, one devotee who had left ISKCON approached me and said, "Do you remember me? I was in the Bombay temple some years ago. Now I am staying here in Radha Kunda." He had a name from a Babjaji of Radha Kunda. And he was hearing from the babajis of Radha Kunda.

After going further on the parikrama and immersing myself in the waters of Radha Kunda...I thought of when Srila Prabhupada had come to Radha Kunda and how his Guru Maharaja had instructed him..."If you ever get money, print books." He said there is fire blazing in the Math. Everybody is fighting for what room will I occupy...what place will I have. So Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura appealed to our Srila Prabhupada that if you ever get money, print books.

So I was thinking how right from Radha Kunda itself, Srila Prabhupada took inspiration for the mission to preach Krsna consciousness throughout the world. And that If Srila Prabhupada hadn't left India and come to the West and preached, I would never have had any idea about Radha Kunda...about Vrndavana, about Krsna.

So Srila Prabhupada's inspiration began at Radha Kunda and he came to the West to preach. He gave fallen souls like us the chance to hear about Krsna and Vrndavana and ultimately Radha Kunda. And from Srila Prabhupada's beginning preaching in the West, finally we came to the position that we could come to India, and visit Vrndavana, and we could also come to Radha Kunda. And without srila Prabhupada's preaching, which was encouraged and inspired right here at the Kesavaji Gaudiya Math, where would we be?

And not only the devotees from America I thought of the devotees from South Africa. If Srila Prabhupada's disciples hadn't gone there, if Srila Prabhupada hadn't personally gone there...where would they be? So preaching is so important...and I was thinking...that internally...because Radha Kunda is svananda sukhana kunja - the house of Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati...that internally we have everything that any babaji of Radha Kunda has...and much more. Otherwise in addition to their internal realization and internal service they have a very compassionate mission which is to reclaim the fallen souls throughout the whole world. Which may begin far away from Radha Kunda but which will culminate again in Radha Kunda.

So, how important preaching is. And Srila Prabhupada's sannyas...inspired and encouraged by Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja and Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja...was Srila Prabhupada's most definite act of commitment to fulfill the mission of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and take Krsna consciousness all over the world. So it is so important for us that he took sannyas and came to deliver us.

Now so many years have passed. We've read Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Caitanya-caritamrta... we've come to India, we've come to Vrndavana...But how to make further progress? Srila Prabhupada said I have given everything in my books, and certainly he gave everything in his books. But he also said that initiation does not mean one is perfect. Initiation means that one is beginning. And therefore, to become perfect, we need help. And Srila Prabhupada explained that any one who can help one understand the teachings of his spiritual master can be accepted as siksa guru.

Srila Prabhupada desired from the very beginning to have place in Vrndavana where his disciples could come. But as we know from Srimad Bhagavatam the real value of coming to the holy place is not to take bath...the animals take bath in the river. The real value comes from associating with the saintly persons of the holy place.

So Srila Prabhupada went to the West and preached. The first time he came back he had the idea that there should be some place in Vrndavana for foreign disciples to come. But his plan for his disciples was not complete just with the creation of the Krsna-Balarama temple and ashrama.

Srila Prabhupada wanted that there also be some learned saintly persons that could explain his teachings to us more fully than we were able to understand on our own. And who could give us the association which is the real benefit of coming to the holy place? And Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja is certainly working to help complete the mission of our Srila Prabhupada. And he works tirelessly. One devotee commented that he thought that Srila Narayana Maharaja spent more hours preaching and serving ISKCON than practically any sannyasi in ISKCON.

Which highlights the point that the name of the institution is not really what matters. What matters is the heart. And Srila Narayana Maharaja's heart is so much dedicated to the service of Srila Prabhupada, and his Guru Maharaja, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and the whole parampara, that he doesn't make any distinction. In fact, because of this deep love and affection for our Srila Prabhupada, he welcomes us more...and helps us more. So I don't think that any words we could speak, or any price we could pay, could begin to...repay...what to speak of repay...we couldn't even estimate the service Srila Narayana Maharaja is rendering to Srila Prabhupada and Prabhupada's disciples.

So on this occasion we can only bow down at the lotus feet of all our gurus...beginning with Srila Prabhupada and all the acaryas in the line who are represented by Srila Narayana Maharaja today, and beg for their mercy...that they will always keep us close to them and engage us in their service. Hare Krsna.

Vinod vani devi dasi: Prabhupada pranama mantra...So although I am not qualified to speak in front of such elevated persons, I feel this is like guru dakshina. Once you accept help from the advanced souls you are required to repay your debt somehow. So out of debt for Srila Prabhupada, Srila Narayana Maharaja, Srila Tamal Krsna Maharaja, Srila Giriraja Maharaja, and how much they have helped me in spiritual life, I will try to say something.

So this year of the Vyasa puja day in our Krsna-Balarama mandir, I was feeling so much bereft because sitting in the assembly there were so many people of different moods. There was a lack of cohesiveness and my heart was empty...and I felt like this year I have not glorified my spiritual master because I could not catch the mood that I wanted to present. But today I feel like this is the real Vyasa Puja of Srila Prabhupada. Because we've come today in the same mood to glorify him, not to put our own position forward, but simply in a mood of glorification. To speak a few things about him. And so for me this is my Vyasa Puja for 1994.

Actually, I wanted to say that I did not have so much association with Srila Prabhupada. So I will simply try to repeat something I have learned from Srila Narayana Maharaja.

This year on Srila Rupa Gosvami's appearance day we had the good fortune to spend the day with him at the Radha Damodara Mandir. This was a very wonderful opportunity to see him worship Srila Rupa Gosvami. I learned very much about my own spiritual master from watching him. And although Srila Narayana Maharaja spoke in Hindi, we could understand some, and also we heard the translation.

He quoted one verse which was spoken by Kavi Karnapura from the Caitanya Candrodoya Nataka. This verse Srila Narayana Maharaja has told us is the essence of the Caitanya Caritamrta this verse goes:

priya svarupe dayitas svarupe / prema svarupe sahaja virupe

nijana rupe pabareka rupe / patana rupe svavilasa rupe

So in this explanation he described this verse in terms of Srila Rupa Manjari, Lalita devi, and Srimati Radharani. But the explanation he gave to us later was in terms of Sriman Mahaprabhu, Svarupa Damodara and Rupa Gosvami. So I asked Booma devi, who is a very advanced devotee in this math, please explain to me the correlation between Mahaprabhu's lila and Krsna's lila...and how these two verses are the same. And she said, "Prabhu, the bhava is the same. Don't you understand? You simply change the words but the bhava is the same."

Sitting here today I was thinking how...considering how this verse could also be applied to Srila Prabhupada. That srila Prabhupada was the exact replica of Sriman Mahaprabhu, and his very dear friend we know was Srila Bhakti Prajnana Kesava Maharaja. And Srila Prabhupada was also prema svarupa - he was the very embodiment of the prema of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And. sahaja virupe, and what was this about Srila Prabhupada's prema...was it was very sahaja...it was very natural...very spontaneous. Srila Prabhupada loved Krsna so much that his distribution of Krsna consciousness was very widespread, very natural. Deeply from his heart he felt this compassion.

The next line is vijana rupe pabreka rupe. So who is this prabhu that the Gaudiya Vaisnavas have? This prabhu is Srimati Radharani, or Gauranga Mahaprabhu and this is what eka rupe we have no other master other than Mahaprabhu and Srimati Radharani. We know no other mater. We know our Srila Prabhupada was of the same bhava other than his spiritual master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Gauranga Mahaprabhu and Srimate Radharani he had no other master. He was eka nishka - his mind was completely fixed at executing the order of his spiritual master. Therefore, what? tatana rupe svavilasa rupe...therefore he is the fit person to distribute tatana rupe...because what? svavilas rupe he actually understood the intimate vilas of Gauranga Mahaprabhu and Srimati Radharani and Krsna...and therefore he is competent...he is the fit person to distribute. So therefore, from this verse we can understand that our Srila Prabhupada was so special, that he came here and took sannyas simply for the purpose of distributing Krsna consciousness to us who actually had no qualifications.

Therefore, on this day we sit here together with Srila Narayana Maharaja and worship Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and our whole disciplic line...we are so grateful that they gave us this opportunity...And let us all pray that we all pick up the same bhava which is simply to remain devoted to our disciplic line to simply distribute the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and to simply become intimate servitor of Srimati Radharani and Gauranga Mahaprabhu.

I had one godsister approach me the other day to challenge me that why was it I was living in the home of one swami but I was loving another. So this was a very confrontational situation. Then I told her, "Prabhu, don't you see, the taste is the same?"

And you see by serving in the disciplic line, when I find the advanced soul who gives me Srila Prabhupada, and who loves Srila Prabhupada, and who increases my love for Srila Prabhupada, and that taste is the same - then for me that is Srila Prabhupada. That is coming to me from Srila Prabhupada. There is no difference to me. It's all coming to me in a straight line. And so this is my experience. Although there may be so many different institutions, with different dress or different asramas, or different varnas, when we find that the bhava is the same, and the taste is the same, and the goal is the same, and we feel our heart opening up, and we feel ourselves advancing, we are simply foolish if we deny that, and look at the externals. So I just wanted to say that all this is remaining by the grace of Srila Prabhupada who we remain eternally indebted to...and on this day we pray that Srila Prabhupada, Srila Narayana Maharaja and Srila Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja give us blessings that we can continue. Hare Krsna.

H. H. Narayana Maharaja: namas srestam manum api...vancha kalpatarubhyas ca...namo maha vadanyaya...

Some are sleeping so, everyone please repeat mahamantra. (Chants) All glories to Sri Sri guru and Gauranga. Sri-Sri Radha-Krsna, Sri-Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Also all glories to my divine master nitya lila pravista om visnupada Sri Srimad Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Gosvami Maharaja. My siksa guru...and also not siksa guru...also best friend...bandhu, he was more bandhu to me. I never paid...so much respect outwardly...but I paid my wholehearted everything to him.

I cannot express my heart, my feelings, but all are telling to speak. Where there will be difficulty, Dina Bandhu prabhu will help me because he knows some Hindi and always he helps me.

We are now in Kesavaji Gaudiya Math taking or giving classes here on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi lila Chapter 4 (Text 16 and 17) and discussing and explaining...I came to a point where there is written...

prema-rasa nidhyas kanthe asvadana

raga-marga bhakti loke karite pracarana

rasika-sekhara krsna parama karuna

ei dui hetu haite icchara udgame

vaikuntha di...nahi pracara se saba paribe ebe mora camatkara. In explanations...you are perhaps understanding something. I am take the tika of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. The general meaning is this: that prema rasa nitya karite asvadana (break).

His vraja lila in Vrndavana. He is thinking like so...that I should...I want to taste the nidhyas...the essence of prema. What is the essence of prema? Krsna wants to enjoy the five rasas - santa, dasya, sakha, vatsalya and madhurya rasa. These are rasa. But the essence of all this are...gopi prema. And the essence of gopi prema is Radhika prema. So the essence of all prema is the prema mahabhava of Srimati Radhika to Krsna. And...Sri Krsna enjoys these things very well. More than others...He wants to enjoy this essence of prema. And He wants that he should give some...not drop...sprinkly to the jivas in this world. Only a sprinkle. Not more.

TKG: No flood.

NM: No flood. Not a drop...only a sprinkle. Very little particles of prema should be given to world. Krsnadas Kaviraj Gosvami explaining that why Krsna wanted to enjoy these two things...the essence of prema and on the other hand to give a sprinkle to the whole world. Why? Because Krsna is a rasika sekhara and Krsna is so kind. Parama karuna. What is the meaning of parama karuna? Most essence of karuna...He wants to give to this world. Why? Because He is a rasikha sekhara (end of tape).

What is a rasikha? Without reading Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu...especially...Ujjvala Nilamani, and especially Vidagdha Mahdava and Lalita Madhava. Anyone cannot know what is a rasikhata...and what is rasikha sekhara. At first we should know what is rasa. Then we should know what is rasikha, and then we should know what is a rasika sekhara. Rasa means...Krsna is object of prema, and sakha, father, and mother, Nanda Baba and yasoda, gopis...and especially Srimati Radhika; and sakhas, Sridama, Sudama, Vasudama, and Labanga, Subala...They are sakhas. So they are called ragatmika bhaktas. Raga is there in their hearts. And Krsna wants to enjoy the essence of all these in the highest way. Because he is rasika sekhara.

Krsna goes to cowherding. Sakhas are with Him. Mother and father are coming to...giving farewell and gopis are hiding here and there...on the roof of the palace, in the kunja, everywhere they are standing...looking towards Krsna. Krsna making fun. Anyhow, He goes to a gopi who is very recently married, and sings towards her and makes any cause to run there. And Krsna also goes...that no one guess what Krsna is doing. He at once reaches that gopi and toots His flute and touches the cheek of that gopi...and taking His heart at once goes to her. Krsna touches everything of that gopi, even her heart. And she becomes without heartless and standing there. This is rasikha. Rasa-lila is the essence of all these things. Now Krsna wants to enjoy all the rasa nidhyas - essence of all the rasa. Why? Because He will enjoy Himself...this is His own...work. And He wants to give this sprinkle to others. These two things are of His svarupa...svarupa nubandhi... means natural. But yet to have some...especially He wants to enjoy and second, He wants to give to others. These two occurs by His own svarupa sakti. Both are important and the main reasons for coming Lord Caitanya in this world.

But when He wanted to come..the whole world was covered with aisvarya maya bhakti. What is aisvarya? That Krsna is the Lord of Lords...Himself Krsna...Himself Bhagavan...that KRsna is Bhagavan Himself. And we are very ignorant of Krsna, and we should serve Krsna. Krsna thinks in His heart...that I love it, I want it...but I am not controlled by them. I am controlled...only if anyone without this aisvarya mayi bhakti...treats Me like his friend...I...or like his dear son. If he sometimes...

TKG: chastises.

NM: chastises Me...sometimes binds with rope...He was not a good boy. He was thief, naughty, and so on. And if priya...beloved...they are telling..."You are naughty, You are thief," and after that, "You are lampat - debauchee.

Devotee: Rascal...

NM: Not rascal...If anyone treats Me like this, I become in control of that kind of bhakta. And I want to taste the rasa and mostly madhur rasa, Srimati Radhika. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamya aham...But yet I want that thing. I want taste that thing and to give some sprinkles to them.

Now Krsnadas Kaviraj Gosvami explains these things and you should understand. Sometimes in ISKCON temples, and here and there, I have said something...spoken something about Swamiji. But, I am so much sorry that some of ISKCON devotees and leaders could not follow me. Like Hanuman, like others...like Arjuna, like the associates of Krsna in Dvaraka and Ramacandra and all others. If Hanuman and the Uddhava...not...alll others associates of Dvaraka would be in Vrindavana...and yasodamayi binding the hands of Krsna...what they will do?

NM: They would be very upset.

TKG: They would be very upset. If gopi is telling to Krsna, "Come on, come on, serve my feet, I am so much tired." What would Hanuman and Arjuna...they will do? They will understand they are doing disrespect to my Prabhu. That is the case with me. I want to more and more glorify Swamiji, but some ISKCON leaders...they don't have all ideas from their Prabhupada...and they could not understand their Prabhupada. They think this thing to me. That I am not...

TKG: Respecting.

NM: ...respecting Swamiji. He was my siksa guru but he also my friend. They should not think that I should treat as they are treating to their master. I had something special than them...but they don't realize these things. So I am sorry and I...tell them to excuse me for this fault.

So I going to tell something by this...I told before...I am coming to the same point. When Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to this world He is same as Krsna. Svayam Bhagavan comes Vrajendranandana, Syamasundar comes in this world...Ramacandra, Dvarakadish Krsna, Mathuresa Krsna, even Narayana, even Karanodakasayi Visnu, Garbhodakasayi and Ksirodakasayi...says...all are fractions of Krsna comes in Vrajendranandana Syamasundara Krsna. And Syamasundara Himself is Krsna...Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Not only Krsna...but whole Krsna...Vrajendranandana with Srimati Radhika combined...is Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

So, He is also special to Radhika and Krsna also when He becomes all fractions - Mathuresa Krsna, Dvarakesa Krsna, narayana, Baladeva prabhu, Tripurusavatara, Karana-dakasayi, Garbhodakasayi Ksirodakasayi, Sadasiva, all the Mahavisnus...all will be in Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Krsnadas Kaviraja Gosvami also explaining also that when Krsna was in Vrindavana, He killed Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, Kamsa and all other demons. Krsna did not kill them. Who killed? Visnu killed...actually...Krsna only tasted rasa and from birth up to lila He stayed in Vrindavana...Vraja, in Radha Kunda, Shyama Kunda, Nandagram, Varsana...all everything. Krsna actually did. But all the demons were killed by not Krsna Himself...but by Mahavisnu, Garbhodakasayi, or Ksirodakasayi Visnu.

When Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to this world, He defeated Kesava Kashmiri...very strange thing. He was a very kisora bala...reading and teaching only vyakarana sastra...and He defeated the world famous Kesava Kashmiri. He was conquering whole world...and whole Navadvipa...and whole world coming to know this. So they were all fearing from that Kesava Kashmiri and sent this little boy reading and teaching Vyakarana...and Mahaprabhu...no moment...at once defeated him. He could not speak one word.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu also defeated Savabhauma Bhattacarya who was best learned person in the whole world at that time. He used to give...to sannyasi...what to speak of new persons. And he told Caitanya Mahaprabhu..."I will give you another sannyasa...but better quality of sannyasa name Bharati, Puri, Aranya, Giri, all these best qualities of sannyasa. But he was also defeated in a moment. So strange.

He also defeated Prakasananda Sarasvati with sixteen thousand of his disciples. Again he went to South India and He instructed kusvyadi...leprosy person...Vasudeva and made him like devata...demigod...like Indra and all others...Very beautiful. He went to Puri and looked everywhere and preached the name everywhere.

This is certainly a very strange fact. But who did it? Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself? Radha and Krsna jugal? Or anyone else did it. Who did? Mahavisnu did all these things. Understand?

This is not the real business of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. You should understand this. His business was rasa-niryasa...and to give some sprinkles to all others. Not these...all other strange things. These are of Mahavisnu, because He is avatara. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not yugavatara. But why He did? Because worldly persons, general persons, those who are not rasika Vaisnavas, they don't know tattva, they have not gone to association with any Vaisnava...they think that this is a very good thing. To preach whole world...the name of Krsna...and to give Gita sandesha...is the whole thing. This was done by...you should know.

So I want to say that your Prabhupada has given these things...only these things...and not beyond these things. Then he was only the servant of Mahavisnu, not of Krsna. A strange thing...fact...but for them who are ignorant. But those who are wise and have done initiation from any rasika vaisnava, bhava bhakta of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who like Raya Ramananda, like Svarupa Damodara, like Rupa Gosvami, like Raghunatha Gosvami, and their generations up to Visvanatha Cakravati Thakura, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada and my Gurudeva. Those who have given their heart to them and have realized anything...very little...they can realize these things.

Sometimes in ISKCON, or other places, I want to tell the whole world...our ISKCON leaders...that your Prabhupada has come from them, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And he has come to give the same thing what Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to give. But they don't want to move an inch of...and they...me...and tell them me...what you are doing? We cannot...

TKG: allow...

NM: allow me to tell you. That he is the part and parcel of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Rasaraja mahabhava. Perhaps they have no mind to think all these things. So some of them are against me. Also those who associate with Tamala Krsna Swamiji, Giriraja Swami and some others, they also have begun to be opposite to them. And to preach against them. But I think they are...Hindi word

TKG: recipients of mercy.

NM: persons to be given mercy to them. I think you should realize all these things. At first, if any temple is going on...we'll have to clear...

TKG: the ground.

NM: The thorns are there, the trees having thorns...useless...to be cut, and to give some land. But if there is a tamal tree, we should try to save it. (Laughter.) We should not cut this...and if...(laughter and chanting Mahamantra). If there is a very beautiful tamal tree, and if there is a stone...like a stone...but not a stone...Giriraja...and we should place there and erect a very good temple there. But to dig and to sweep is not everything. To dig for basement of this big temple is not everything. So Swamiji has at first cleared the atmosphere...

TKG: Prepared the ground.

NM: Prepared the ground...by preaching name and the sandesh of Gita...he prepared. So very important work. Without this, without this, he could not have given these things. As Caitanya Mahaprabhu first preached the whole world Krsna name, and he wanted all Vaisnavas to understand His inner mood. Otherwise everyone cannot understand...so he has done this task and it was so necessary for that world...for all world...he has done but he has not done everything...by that doing. It was only basement...

TKG: Foundation.

NM: Foundation. After this he began to erect the temple...How? By writing his books. In no time...in short time he completed Caitanya-caritamrta, Gita At It Is, Srimad Bhagavatam. Best work are this Caitanya-caritamrta and Srimad Bhagavatam. And I think if he was alive...for most one or two years more...he would completed Srimad Bhagavatam...he would completed Ujjvala...

TKG: Nilamani.

NM: Nilamani. Bhakti-rasamrta-sindu, Vidagdha Madhava which are necessary to know Caitanya Mahaprabhu...rasa, rasika and rasika sekhara But...we are deprived of that....he could not completed his work. Because Prabhu, Krsna...or Caitanya Mahaprabhu called him..."That...it is enough...You should return to My service. Without you, I cannot live." He was feeling separation, He called him. So I...don't much, much time, I have taken so much time.

TKG: There is still time.

NM: So all the ISKCON leaders should understand these facts. And they should excuse me for what I have done...fault to their feets. I very humbly beg pardon to them. They should not be angry to me. I want to glorify him more and more but I am unfortunate...that does not understand this facts. One day if they will...

TKG: Hindi word.

NM: Hindi word is, if they are pure-hearted...sincere. If they are fully sincere serving his...Prabhupada...then one day...he will come and...they will be fortunate to understand these things. They want that...they want to bind Prabhupada...Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja...in their little West mentality. Their mentality is not out of maya. I am not telling to all. They should think that what we think what Prabhupada is...not only that...he is beyond our this...thing. So much beyond. In lakhs of time, lakhs of births...they can come to this point. Why Prabhupada has come to this world? And when they can realize this things, if they are so fortunate...that he was near and dear to Srimati Radhika, and Krsna, and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and for only giving to this world this message he has given all these things. Name pracara, Gita sandesh, and vaidi bhakti...for only making ground, making foundation. We have not known everything...

One person has told that by initiation...it is beginning stage...very beginning level. We have to go so much...so we should not think that we have known everything. We have know nothing. Like Brahma has told jnanam ta eva jnanam...

TKG: They only know how high the mountain is but they don't know how deep it is. You gave that example. They only know how high the mountain is but not how deep it is.

NM: You should tell this.

TKG: No, no, you tell this. It's your example.

NM: They should...

TKG: They only know how high...

NM: They know...to?

TKG: They only know how high the mountain is but they don't know how deep it is.

NM: They know only...and they don't know. But if they see how high is mountain...but how deep it is, they don't know. They should know how deep it is. These are the different things...and that is why Caitanya Mahaprabhu came (quotes Cc. Adi 4.17). He came for these things. These three things...and to preach, and to give these things, and to sprinkle these things... From Rupa Gosvami up to our Gurudeva...all these acaryas they have sakti...have Gaura-sakti...sakti, Krsna-sakti. They are...they have come in another...in order to understand...misunderstand...that we are general people of this world. But actually they are not. They are very beloved to their Krsna and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And the main purpose was their coming to this world to give this thing to special persons in this world. What things? The mood of Caitanya Mahaprabhu - namo mahavadanyaya...... This is the main principle of the acarya.

Any devotee of ISKCON...that Prabhupada has not told anything about this...and he has told that you should only preach. You should preach? What preach? What is the meaning of preaching? Then he became silent. You should know what Caitanya Mahaprabhu came to preach. At first you should know from ABCD to that point...up to that point you should know. You should obey the orders of Prabhupada. But don't think that we have known everything of Prabhupada...and we are going to preach...you should know these things...and obey his general orders, general things. Taking name and also. But it is not last goal of their siksa...so they should understand...I think he has come for these things...like Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami, like Jiva Gosvami, like Visvanatha Cakravati Thakura, and Bhaktivinoda Thakura. So we should not try to bind him in our thoughts, in our level.

TKG: Limited conception.

NM: Limited conception. We should pray him that we should know your...all these things. Always try to open your heart and my love. And pray him that you should mercifully give all these things in our heart. Then we can preach more and more. There is no...quarrel there. We are Vaisnavas of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and He told...admitted all this. I became so much pleased to hear these words. That we should not give any more importance to any name or anything.

TKG: Institutional name.

NM: Institutional name. We should try to honor all Vaisnavas who are in the line of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in the line of Rupa Gosvami. Only this is one institute Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, Krsna Consciousness, any Gaudiya Vaisnava. These are like...but no quarrel. They only thing...only they want to serve Krsna more and they also want to serve more Krsna. But for themselves no selfishness, nothing to quarrel. So we should be like what he tells Swami Tamal Krsna. That we should be combined.

Devotee: Cooperate.

NM: Cooperate each other...and then we will be able to preach whole world with Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission, Krsna mission. I am praying at the lotus feet of my Gurudeva and my siksa guru, my bandho, to Swamiji...that he should bestow his sprinkles of his mercy to me and to all. I am not so selfish that not for you I will not pray. I should pray for you also...if there is some left over then he should give me also. (laughter) Vancha kalpatarubhyas ca...I also again pray that what I have told...

TKG: Now they will be more angry...

NM: You should not be angry...and tell them I am begging...

Giriraja Swami: Pardon

NM: Pardon...to them...that they should not be angry or opposite to me. Gaura prema nandi.