Allen Ginsberg: Now, for instance, in America many of the black people are tending toward Allah and toward Muhammadanism.

Srila Prabhupada: That is another thing. Somebody is inclined to some thing, somebody is inclined to some thing. That is going on, and it will go on till the end of the creation. (laughing)

Allen Ginsberg: Yuga.

Srila Prabhupada: But our process is that, you are searching after the center, here is the center. That is our proposal.

Allen Ginsberg: But what do you do when different religious groups claim to be the center? What do you do when different religious groups...

Srila Prabhupada: No, we welcome every religion. We don't decry any religion. Our point is the love of Godhead. Or Krsna is love, all-attractive. So we want to be attracted by Krsna. Just like a magnetic force and iron. Unless iron is rusty, it is automatically attracted by the magnetic force. Similarly, we are contaminated by material coverings. So we are trying to make it rustless so that immediately we shall be attracted. This is the program. Krsna is all-attractive. That is a fact. And we are attracted. But being covered with this rust, we are, instead of being attracted by Krsna, we are being attracted by maya. This is our whole program. So our central program is how to love Krsna, or how to love God. So we want to see... That is the Bhagavata definition, that how much you have enhanced your love of God. You call Krsna or something else, that doesn't matter. Phalena pariciyate. The result. Your religious principle, what is the result? Are you enhancing your love for God or dog? That we want to see. If you are enhancing your love for God, it is all right. We don't say anything. But if... People should learn how to love. That is the perfection of life. That we are teaching.

Allen Ginsberg: If you're identifying love, however, with the sabda Krsna, what of those people who identify love with the sabda Allah?

Srila Prabhupada: If that sabda, of course, identifies with God, we have no objection. That Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-saktis. God has many names. God is attractive, His name is also attractive, because He's not different from His name. If you have got exactly the same attractive name, we have no objection. We simply say, "You chant God's name, holy name." Then you become purified. That is our program. We don't say that you change your Christianity. No. We don't say. If you have got a nice name, all-attractive name, in your scripture--don't manufacture but authorized--then you chant that. We simply request, "You chant."

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then how would you adapt the Krsna chanting to Christianity? By seeing Krsna as Christ or Christ as Krsna and sounding Christ's image in Krsna's name?

Srila Prabhupada: Krsna, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And Krsna says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Krsna. So if anyone loves Krsna, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Krsna. If he says, "Why shall I love Krsna? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Krsna, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Krsna.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think that the Hare Krsna chant could serve as an intermediary to link the religious tendencies of, both of Christianity and Muslim religions?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Any religion. Any religion. If he's serious about religion. If he takes the religion as a scapegoat, that is different thing. If he wants to understand religion and if he takes seriously to religion, then he will understand. We want serious persons. Now, according to Srimad-Bhagavatam, religion means creation of the laws of God. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam. Laws of God. Who will deny it? Who will deny it? Any religion, Christian, Muhammadan or any. Who can deny that religion is the laws of God? Simple explanation. If you ask what is meant by religion, religion is laws of God. That's all. And if you want to know what is God, that is also replied. "The original source of everything." So one should try to understand in this way. But if one wants to remain in his compact ideas and does not want to go further, then it is very difficult. He should be open-minded and appreciating. Then everything is all right. We say, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, it is not that you are necessarily to chant Krsna, but if you have no suitable name, then chant Krsna. Why do you make differentiate. Every name is the same.

Allen Ginsberg: So if you have no other suitable name, chant Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Chant Krsna.

Allen Ginsberg: That's Caitanya's...?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Allen Ginsberg: Did He feel there were other suitable names? Did He feel or did He think that...

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. He said many thousand millions names there are. But if you are serious about God, then... You may have many names by your friends, but any name will do.

Allen Ginsberg: Okay. So the problem I was posing before is, which I leave open, I don't know. What is the most attractive and suitable name here in this material country?

Srila Prabhupada: Now, take for example the Muhammadan name Allah. Allah means the greatest. So God is greatest. So that greatest conception is this Brahman conception. And so far Christian, I don't think they have got any particular name. They say God.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. Lord, God. That is the basic one.

Srila Prabhupada: Controller. God means controller. Is it not?

Allen Ginsberg: What is the etymology of God? Do you know?

Hayagriva: I don't know.

Srila Prabhupada: God is the equivalent of isvara. Isvara means controller.

Allen Ginsberg: Then the Jews, which were my background, had a prohibition...

Srila Prabhupada: jehovah.

Allen Ginsberg: They had jehovah, but they had a prohibition of pronouncing the highest names. 'Cause they felt that God was imageless, and therefore should not be pronounced or painted. My background is I guess what would be impersonalist.

Hayagriva: The Jews are personalist.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, what are they? Impersonalists or personalists?

Lady: Impersonalists. They believe in just the Absolute. That's all.

Srila Prabhupada: That was the difference in Jesus Christ. He was a personalist.

Devotee: Hasidics are personal.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. They put their devotion into the rabbi or the guru. The ancient Hebrew... I guess you must know about that. The ancient Hebrew teaching was that the name of God should never be pronounced.

Srila Prabhupada: Now we come to know...

Allen Ginsberg: J-H-V-H.

Srila Prabhupada: Anyway why God's name...

Allen Ginsberg: Pictures should not be made. Pictures should not be made. Because it would limit God to human conception.

Srila Prabhupada: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaisnava philosophy. If God is everything, then where is material? He is spiritual. Material means when you cannot understand God. That is material. Everything is sky. When it is covered by cloud we call it is cloudy. Similarly, cloud has no existence. It comes only to cover sometimes, but the sky is eternal. Similarly, God is eternal. When you are covered by some maya, you cannot see, you cannot understand God, that is material. So any philosophy which does not help understanding God, that is material. That is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Where is material if God is everything? Sarvam khalv idam brahma. You see?

Hayagriva: All spirits.

Srila Prabhupada: All spirit. All the sky. Everywhere is sky, but when it's covered it is called cloud. Similarly when God is covered by some nonsense ideas, then it is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Therefore those who are too much absorbed in materialistic way, there is a restriction but don't attempt. Because he will be to think that God's name is just like my son's name my daughter's name. Therefore that restriction.

Ranadhir:hink when they worship, they're allowed to say God's name, it's just when they're not, when they're talking about Him outside the temple that they have to use different name.

Hayagriva:We've got to tune some harmoniums.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, we have to work on the music boxes. We have to start material preparations for the evening.

Srila Prabhupada: That is not material. (laughter) We have no,...

Allen Ginsberg: A sabda preparation.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, sabda is originally spi..., sabda-brahman.

Allen Ginsberg: We have to find out if all the...

Srila Prabhupada: Simply you have to understand that there is nothing material, everything is spiritual. That is required. So long you do not understand that everything is spiritual only, that is our defect.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then even sexuality is spiritual?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is said in the Bhagavad-gita: if you use sexuality for giving birth to nice child, not cats and dogs, that is spiritual. But people are using sexuality for other purposes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, sastra-viruddho(?), according to religious ritualistic way, if one, when one uses sex life that is (indistinct). That is, therefore in the, according to Vedic system, therefore, having sex life with wife, there is a great ceremony which is called garbhadhana ceremony, and all the higher caste, brahmana, ksatriyas, sudra, er vaisyas especially, they are to observe ten kinds of reformative process. The first process is while giving birth to a child there is a great ceremony, garbhadhana. So it is not a secret. To beget nice child, then there will be nice population, then there will be peace and prosperity. If you beget cats and dogs, how can you expect peace and prosperity? Living in the same dog society, cat society then there will be peace? No.

Allen Ginsberg: I would rather dogs and cats being Krsna's though.

Srila Prabhupada: Hum?

Allen Ginsberg: But if all matter is Krsna?

Srila Prabhupada: That's all right, but when Krsna is covered, when Krsna is covered, naham prakasah sarvasya yoga-maya-samavrtah. The same example: cloud is sunshine, but it covers. What is the cloud? This is creation of the sunshine as these trees and everything is creation of sunshine. Cloud is also. Mind is also Krsna's. In that sense Mind is also Krsna, but it has a covering spirit.

Lady: The element, its quality.

Hayagriva: It's a whole spirit but in certain circumstances we tend to forget this...

Srila Prabhupada: Material energy that's said by Krsna apara, inferior energy. Bhumir apo, bhumir apo analo, prakrtir me bhinna astadha. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim para. So material energy is the covering energy, is also Krsna. Just like police department is also government, but it is not very convenient because putting under police department. (laughter) That is also government department. For government the university department and the police are equally important. They are spending equally, are taking care of both the, but for us, "Oh, police department horrible." This man is under police department, police custody, and that man is in education.

Lady: That's much better.

Srila Prabhupada: But when you go to the government state, they are equally important. They are distributing the finance everywhere. So similarly either you take material energy or spiritual energy or marginal energy, all energy of God's, Krsna's, but they are acting differently. So, so far I am marginal energy, if I am under the control of the material energy, that is my misfortune. But if I am controlled by the spiritual energy, that is my fortune. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah. They take shelter of the spiritual energy. They are mahatma, and what is their symptom: bhajanty ananya manaso, simply engaged in devotional service. That, that is required.

Devotees: Haribol!

Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (end)

Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.