"Nations throughout the world, communist and capitalist, first world and third world, have engaged in what can be described as the Great (secular-liberal) Experiment. Recent history has proven it to have failed. The French riots are but the latest in the results of this failed experiment. Material solutions of diplomacy, money, education, health care, a global village, technology, etc. have not resolved any of the entrenched problems of old. The only difference is now people use cars, boats and airplanes for horses, camels and elephants." Read full article.
Part II: The God Solution
Replies: 8 Comments
Posted by David Nollmeyer @ 11/30/2005 12:50 PM PST
There is no way to condone the behavior of those persons breaking not only Krishna's law but the law of the state.
There is a theory called de-individuation that has pratical explanations not only for mob behavior but the following of bad leaders.
Meditation may be a precursor to de-individuation.
Incorrect surrender may be a more internal perspective from a vaishnava point of view.
The expert's opinion is greater than my own.
In light of the present equilibrium one should openly consider the following in relation to Srila Prabhupada's teachings.
Deindividuation theory is a social psychological account of the individual in the crowd. Deindividuation is a psychological state of decreased self-evaluation, causing anti-normative and disinhibited behavior. The impact of deindividuation theory in science and society (especially 20th century politics) make it one of social science's more influential contributions. Deindividuation theory is rooted in some of the earliest social psychological theorizing, more than a century ago. It seeks to explain the apparent transformation of rational individuals into an unruly group or crowd. It posits that the group provides an environment in which the individual --submerged and anonymous -- suffers from a loss of self-awareness (Zimbardo, 1969). Deindividuation hinders reflection about the consequences of actions, rendering social norms impotent while increasing suggestibility to random outside influences. The theory has been invoked to account for a range of phenomena such as collective behavior, behavior in online groups and in CMC, and the results of the classic Stanford Prison Experience. Despite its status and impact, empirical support for deindividuation theory is minimal. Recently, this lack of support has been attributed to the faulty assumption that crowds cause a loss of self. Instead, it has been proposed that deindividuation marks a transition from individual identity to social dimensions of the self. This transition to a social identity may increase responsiveness to social norms particular to the crowd, instead of decreasing responsiveness to generic social norms, as suggested by deindividuation theory.
What is Deindividuation
According to deindividuation theory, the psychological state of deindividuation is aroused when individuals join crowds or large groups. The state is characterized by diminished awareness of self and individuality. This in turn reduces an individual's self-restraint and normative regulation of behavior. In social psychology, deindividuation is a major theory of group behavior: it provides an explanation of collective behavior of violent crowds, mindless hooligans, and the lynch mob. In addition, deindividuation has been associated with other social phenomena such as genocide, stereotyping, and disinhibition in other settings such as computer-mediated communication. Below, the theoretical evolution of deindividuation is sketched, followed by a brief impression of the empirical support for this theory. Finally, recent research is discussed, which argues for a reconceptualization of deindividuation: It appears deindividuation is not a loss of individual identity, but may be better construed as a transition to a social identity.
Posted by ANON @ 11/18/2005 05:31 PM PST
Hm, very interesting. I agree with the ending but let's be frank, this will not happen until all the in-fighting within ISKCON comes to a halt...or some kind of resolution. Or, better yet, Krsna will empower that person or persons to lead ISKCON to a new glory. Actually, I like that better.
Posted by praghosa das @ 11/16/2005 07:16 AM PST
I am not certain how many men read this articles but I wanted to point out that this article, while it has been recognized for what it lacks - has at least opened a significant subject. I would like to invite the author Prahlad prabhu to now offer the readers Part II. There is indeed much that can be honed from lessons offered by the present events all over the globe. Not that they differ from the events of the last 5000 years in any way. However - we must keep in mind that they are now occurring after the appearance of Srila Prabhupada in the Western world. In that sense - the present situation is different! Prior to 1965 - the lack of pure guidance was prominently felt. So too the Lord had not yet moved in His Eternal Form as Sri Nam Avatar from the provincial fields of NavaDwhip Dhama to the ghastly shores of the Mlecchas' domain!! But today the world is so much better off! The Lord has indeed made that trek - and carried by His Divine GRace Srila Prabhupada - He delivered Himself to the thirsty seekers of shelter and/or truth here throughout the West. Indeed the article by Prahlada prabhu focuses upon the recent upheavals in France. Srila Prabhupada delivered this country in 1971! He installed Their Lordships Sri Sri Radha Parisisvara there in 1973! This was a most historic event in that nation. Real "LIBERTE - FRATERNITE & EQULALITE" were finally offered to the beleaguered souls along the banks of the Sienne River in the city of Paris!! OOH LA LA! The Beauty of Their Lordships can enchant the hardest of hearts!!
So take your best shot Prahlada Prabhu! Let us delight in Part II and the rest of us will offer what insights we may have as well.
Sri Krsna Samkirtan Ki Jaya!!!
All Glories to His Divine Grace!!!
Posted by praghosa das @ 11/15/2005 01:42 PM PST
The article is well intended but strictly for an audience quite familiar with all of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. There is no real mention of the utltimate causes and/or the real solutions - both in the short term as per HDG's guidance in the principles of varnashrama dharma etc and also in the long term and our individual need to focus on our self realization and avoid humanitarian activities that do not bring the world closer to their self realization.
"The wise lament neither for the living nor the dead" says the Lord in BG second chapter.
What is happening all over the world will continue UNTIL we all accept that Krsna is the Supreme Enjoyer, Controller and Universal "Best Friend". Unless and until that becomes reality - there can be no peace. So THAT is our mandate to share the opportunity of Krsna Consciousness with everyone as far as possible. What appears as "insurmountable" to those who have yet to meet His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada - only magnifies the Mercy of Mahaprabhu as it is offered and received by the willing.
Sri Krsna Samkirtan Ki Jaya!!
Posted by jatayu das @ 11/14/2005 12:26 PM PST
Srila Prabhupada explained on a morning walk: "My Guru Mahârâja once said, "The modern world is a society of the cheaters and the cheated." Unfortunately, the cheated are eulogizing the cheaters, and the small cheaters are worshiping the great cheaters. Suppose a flock of asses comes and eulogizes me, saying, "Oh, you are Jagad-guru." What is the value of their praise? But if a gentleman or learned man gives praise, his words have some value. Generally, however, the persons who are praising and those who are being praised are both ignorant. As the Vedas put it, samstutah purusah paúuh: "A big animal is being praised by a small animal."
- Morning Walk - May 8, 1973
So, the problem is that although people who feel badly mistreated like those in France who believe they have no future whatsoever because there aren't enough workstations - actually Europe has more then 20 Mio people jobless - still, ultimately they all only want to be cheated. They want a situation of nice living and throughout their live to increase the bodily identification in this temporary material existence. In fact they complain that there isnt enough facility to become more&more attached to material sense gratification.
People want to be cheated even in Iskcon. When Prabhupada instructed to focus on varnashrama (read below), changing the situation of useless, so called brahmanas in cost-intensive temples and stopping this crazy phenomenon of "blubbed" devotees at its root forever by installing instead with exactly the same effort, effective varnashrama prime preaching tools - the answer is, no!
Prabhupada's instructions are cristal clear (read below), but till today GBC/SAC declares, our men&women, they all transcend varnashrama, we are priviledged to be respected like above the three modes of material nature, above the level of brahmana. How blinded, egomaniac, even when hearing it directly from Srila Prabhupada these men actually didnt understand anything:
Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.
Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man.
Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?
Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting.
Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who'll chant?
Satsvarupa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varnasrama. That's the easiest.
Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada...
Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnasrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy............. Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthitah. And if they do not remain in the sthana, then the sahajiya's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varnasrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and...
Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?
Posted by Bala-carana dasa @ 11/14/2005 02:04 AM PST
Liberal or conservative - it's all nonsense mental speculation. Better to just chant Hare Krsna and go back to Godhead.
Posted by srinatha @ 11/13/2005 07:35 PM PST
Anyone with a little discrimination could say as much about the Hare Krishna experiment that has, among other things, resulted in child abuse, murder, larceny, religious fanatisism at its worst, and a very insular world view so aleianted form society in the name of "renunciation" that its members write articles like this one that boarder on the ludicrous.
Well written? Give me a brake! Overbroad and lacking any data in support of its conclusions as to how the great evil of liberalism has ruined society would better characterize its content, and its writing style is about the equivilent of a high school paper.
Is the wolrd any better off because of the willingness on the part of some to examine ancient traditions and sort out superstition from fact? Are conservatives doing more for the causse of peace than liberals?
The author attributes moral decay to liberalism, but conservative thinking has surley led to moral degradation as well. Is bigotry immoral? Was Hitler a liberal or conservative. Is the conservative US president Bush any example of morality?
Self realization is not about using a spiritual philosophy to express and support one's own prejudices. It is about transcending the limits of the mind and the political debate of the day.
Posted by anon @ 11/13/2005 01:09 PM PST
well written, prabhu.
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