"Recently, I have been doing a lot of thinking based on my 15 years of being in Iskcon and witnessing a number of trends within the movement, it's Gaudiya counterparts and it’s various offshoots. The purpose of this paper is to present the obvious." Read full article.
Replies: 21 Comments
Posted by kirtirupa dasa @ 11/22/2005 11:54 PM PST
ISKCON will carry on with all its deviant members, just in the same that the Catholic Church misrepresents the teachings of Christ.
Posted by Krsnanatha dasa @ 11/21/2005 12:21 PM PST
At one point Hari dasa complains that "Srila Prabhupada gets demoted to “Swami Maharaja." and then proceeds in his submission to "demote" Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja Prabhupada to merely "Bhaktisiddhanta" in his statement "We know the history of what happened after Bhaktissidhanta left." Both misspelling his name and omitting the proper prerequisite titles deserving mention when speaking of or writing about such a personality in a formal setting.
I am certain it would be considered quite scandalous to Hari dasa (as it should be to any devotee) if an article was published which stated something like "We know the history of what happened after Bhaktivedanta left." I am also sure it would be a strong issue if the writer of such an article then displayed an inability to properly spell even that abbreviated reference to our Srila Prabhupada.
I am curious what training, logic or imagined familiarity allows him to engage in the same level of minimization two paragraphs after condemning the same.
This neglect of maintaining such basic dictations of decorum and continuity of reason in my opinion prevents this writer from being taken seriously.
Posted by seeker @ 11/17/2005 08:04 AM PST
I agree with Shiva das.
Also-Gaudiya Math + branches have done more preaching in India--so according to the essayists "logic" ISKCON should work under their direction in India.
Maybe you should read Srila Prabhupad's books like 'Nectar of Devotion' -'there are MANY Krishna-Concious societies and one should simply take advantage of one and make his life perfect'.
STOP TRYING TO MAKE SRILA PRABHUPAD'S MOVEMENT THE NEW ROMAN CHURCH!!!!
Posted by Pandu das @ 11/11/2005 03:27 PM PST
Hari das said,
"as far as i heard, the girl who had the involvement with VPandit was not forced into the situation. i.e it takes 2 to tango. Admittedly, VPandit was wrong to have succumbed to temptation,"
I've heard such claims before, but the facts of the case critically weaken them.
1) Vakresavara denied having a sexual relation with the girl. (Therefore you're making a claim that contradicts Vakresvara's story.) However, he admitted to the CPO that he would lie to them to defend himself, and the CPO investigation revealed that he was in fact lying. The CPO decision was confirmed on appeal.
2) The claim that it was consentual is legally void. A thirteen year old child cannot consent to sex with anyone in any state in the USA; and when a 40 year old man has sex with a thirteen year old girl, it's not only rape, it's sick.
3) If Vakresvara had admitted to the crime and apologised, I would've had a lot of respect for him. Granted, the material energy can overpower anyone who has even the slightest tinge of false ego. However, instead of preaching about the dangers of sexual desire, he slandered the mataji.
"if you looked closer at BTS mood, you would find that he is compassionate and tries to encourage others despite their gross and subtle anarthas and sins."
Several BTS promoters have presented that idea. However, it confuses mercy with honor. The CPO rectification plan was merciful to Vakresvara in that it gave him a clear method for restoring his purity. Vakresvara ignored the CPO decision as much as possible and instead took the path of pride and deceit. BTS encouraged Vakresvara on this hellish path by putting him in a position of honor that he did not deserve.
Furthermore, it was obvious that BTS did that without regard either for ISKCON or the Gita-nagari community. ISKCON's supposed new-found concern for child protection looks to be a complete farce in light of BTS' honoring of an unrepentant child molester even while ISKCON is bankrupt due to a lawsuit by the former gurukulis. Also, BTS failed to show even the slightest courtesy to the Gita-nagari community in that he did not address the issue with the Gita-nagari community. One may say that perhaps BTS was not of sufficient mental competence during his final months to have done that, except that his disciples would never accept such a human condition. Regardless, neither BTS or Radhanatha discussed the issue with the Gita-nagari community, either before or after Vakresvara was invited.
"What happened did happen and punishment was served to VPandit. A dying Swami should be allowed to spend his last days with friends and those he wishes to help."
Of course Vakresvara was NOT punished. A punishment was prescribed, but he did not follow it. That fact was proven by the CPO Official Decision Clarification dated August 16, 2005, which said, "...there is indisputable and overwhelming evidence that Vakresvara Pandit did not actually follow the restrictions until about a year before our decision." The word on the Web is that he continues to give classes and lead kirtans in violation of the CPO restriction and another unrelated restriction.
I made the decision to respect BTS' wishes during his final months. In fact I did not obtain a copy of the Official Decision against Vakresvara until a few days after BTS passed away, and I would not have made a disturbance over what was to me a rumor. However, I've been informed by some of BTS' leading disciples that BTS knew the situation, and in fact that he believed the CPO Official Decision to be correct. This implies that he also believed Vakresvara was an unrepentant child molester and that he was lying to the Vaishnava community about it. That, to me, brought BTS' purity into doubt, and indeed revealed him to be egocentric and irresponsible. It's not a conclusion I like, but one I was forced to make. Believe it or not, I was surprised by BTS' disciples' reactions to my questioning of his views; and even though they sorely disappointed me, I'm glad to know the truth about what sort of people I had for "friends."
I'm sorry, Hari das, that you couldn't remain civil to discuss this. If you can't post at S. S., then feel free to respond on my blog. I'm posting this comment at the following page:
Posted by hari dasa @ 11/11/2005 01:40 AM PST
as far as i heard, the girl who had the involvement with VPandit was not forced into the situation. i.e it takes 2 to tango. Admittedly, VPandit was wrong to have succumbed to temptation, but the question is that a lot of the gurukulis are promiscuous and take drugs etc....
where i live there is a 14 year old gurukuli girl who lost her virginity at 13 and has taken alcohol and marijuana.
if you looked closer at BTS mood, you would find that he is compassionate and tries to encourage others despite their gross and subtle anarthas and sins.
Prabhupada himself saw Syamasundara leave a pack of ciggarettes on top of Jagannatha while he was carving Them.
What happened did happen and punishment was served to VPandit. A dying Swami should be allowed to spend his last days with friends and those he wishes to help.
[remainder by post snipped by editor]
Posted by Pandu das @ 11/09/2005 07:35 PM PST
Hari das, just please tell me what kind of "preaching style" it is that gives praise and honor to an unrepentant child molester. That's not an unsubstantiated rumor; it's pictured in the latest BTG and proudly displayed on the BTSwami.com web site. WHAT KIND OF PREACHING IS THAT, PRABHU?
Posted by hari dasa @ 11/09/2005 04:27 AM PST
BTS WAS A PURE DEVOTEE-HARI DASA
I am very bored with the discussions on sampradaya sun. It would appear that the participants for the most part are kanistha and aparadhis. My unfortunate participation came about when i saw my Guru (Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja) blasphemed by some that should know better. Persons like Rocana, Praghosa, Radha Krsna, Bhakti Vikasa swami are known for their fanatacism as well as their very distasteful presentations and bad examples of cooperation with their godfamily and iskcon. So, it goes without saying that those that have sided with their opinions and thoughts have similair characteristics and attitudes.
To have a website that focuses heavily on criticising and sharing of unsubstantiated rumours is a dangerous thing and has nothing to do with spiritual advancement.
It is a very low thing to criticise a guru so heavily so shortly after he left the body. Not only that, some have accused BTS of not following strictly as well as speculating. These things have been vented without due consideration as to how disciples are feeling at present.
To conclude, it is very disgusting what many of you have said and you should actually be ashamed if you have a conscience.
Emphatically, I ask any of you if you have done more than my guru, if you have affected as many people in a positive way as my guru, if you have sold as many books as my guru, if you have risked your life for Prabhupada like my Guru-that if you can answer yes to the above then you may just be able to have the right to criticise my Guru.
But you cannot. It baffles me that a large amount of uninitiated devotees have been criticising also, like they feel they know what the actual truth is. And then some of you are speculating and saying that Prabhupada is doing the initiating!
Many of you have criticised my guru and complain that i defend him. but none of you have provided evidence for any of the accusations you shared so publicly.
To conclude, below is a quote from the last public class BTS gave wherein he explains why he did the style of preaching he did. And for those that complained about the title Krsnapada being used, well, some of his fellow Prabhupada disciples used it because they saw it a fitting name for a very elevated soul.
None of you can disprove to me that my faith that my guru is genuine and pure. You do not have evidence nor do you have any sakti to convince me of anything apart from the obvious-you are envious and offensive, you have proved it by the lack of understanding of the siddhanta as well as demonstrating how devotees should not interact.
BTS gave his life to iskcon and the world and went back to godhead wether you like it or not. Do not think that Prabhupada left the world without pure devotees to carry on the mission, to do so would be to minimise Prabhupadas own potency.
I hope you grow up and accept responsability for helping Prabhupadas movement instead of trying to destroy it.
BTS - "See for me it’s a little more difficult, because I was blessed but also sort of cursed that in the kind of way I was serving Prabhupada, I had to be so much aware and attentive to so many things. And so a lot of that was a sacrifice and that it was extending myself to preach, but not always giving deep nourishment to the soul. My soul is of a certain quality, by Prabhupada’s and Krsna’s mercy, and remains as it is, will always what it was. However, as I came into this world, certain coverings, certain things I and you and everyone else have to deal with. And my particular way of serving Prabhupada, I had to be very much – and you see that in my books. My books are all on different topics. My books have been accepted by all the gurus in that area, and that means that I didn’t just write something based on material speculation, but I had to be somewhat on top of what I materially shared. At the same time, I had to be as careful as I could to remain within the Vaisnava paradigm – and I did. And where some people think I didn’t, if they do a closer reading, or if they allow me to explain, or if they do a closer investigation, particularly of the lives of the acaryas, they will see that there are times when we can use secondary things, particularly if they enhance primary, and that our philosophy is that we based our understandings on sabda brahman 100%, but also on anumana and pradyaksa. Anumana is based on some interpretation, realizations, etc., and pradyaksa of course is based on some sense perception. We do not accept pradyaksa or anumana as cent per cent, or as the last word. But we do have the right, explained by Jiva Goswami as he explains the 10 pramanas and the 3 he explains are those that Vaisnavas rely on.
In my services preaching in so many different communities and to so many different environments, I basically used sabda brahman and tried to present it in a palatable way that the audience could respond to and sometimes in certain groups I relied on anumana, certain levels of realizations were shared in different ways. Never, and I say, never did I once go outside of the siddhanta, because if one does that, they are bogus. But at the same time, sometimes one may have an additional, special commission to extend themselves through compassion, in trying to reach as many people as possible. So Prabhupada allowed me to reach hundreds of millions of people, especially through the television programs all around the countries, while I used coming in like a needle and then coming out like an elephant. "
Posted by Bhakta "X" @ 11/07/2005 07:19 AM PST
Again. You take my disagreement with you as an insult. You are way too full of yourself.
I appreciate some of the things this site has to say, but you think I accept all of it. You're WRONG. I never said I agree with any of slander directed towards anyone.
This last article of yours is YOUR thoughts on ISKCON, NOT your Guru Maharaja's.
"i speak for my guru and how he wanted iskcon to flow"
You think you understand the mind of your Guru? Sorry, but I have too much respect for your Guru to believe that.
Disagreement is present in our line. Just study a bit more and you'll see. Start with the teachings of Madhva Acaraya (you know, the Madhva in our sampradaya).
Clearly you're unaware of the use of sarcasm. But I believe it's healthy to disagree. I never said I disagree with our philosophy by the way, just your sentimental approach to it. You equate aligning "our minds to the siddhanta" to blindly following.
If you have had any experience with the inner workings of ISKCON/GBC, you'd be a bit less enthusiastic. It's clear by your comments that you don't.
You continue to reveal yourself to be immature in discussion, and continue to take the low road. You say I started it, but really, other then "pie in the sky" comment, I have not been nearly as offensive as you have been.
Posting under an alias allows me to exist within ISKCON without considering the cave men out there. Not that I couldn't take care of myself, but I have friends and family to protect. I promise, one day, we'll both be at a festival or something, and I'll introduce myself.
Posted by Bhaktin Rebecca @ 11/04/2005 11:41 PM PST
Haribol, Hari das Prabhu,
just a couple of comments...
"we are to align our minds and thoughts to the siddhanta only, otherwise we are new agey freaks who speak about speaking out and thinking for ourselves, when one takes a guru(no matter what level) it means that we are to abandon our free will and only serve the will of Guru and Krsna. Have you read the books prabhuji"
I would have to say that this is NOT what I learned in the Bhakti Sastri course, nor is it what I've learned after 10 yrs of listening to one very prominent GBC Guru who is definately in good standing.
What that course, my siksha Guru, and Srila Prabhupada's books have taught me is that it is not possible to abandon our free will, it is a component of our eternal nature. There is no chance of loving devotion if there is no free will. Bhakti is to utilize that free will to choose to serve Sri Krishna and His devotees in an unalloyed loving fashion.
When we align our minds and thoughts to sastra, we do not stop thinking for our selves, we learn to think properly, to see properly, to really know what is reality and act accordingly. This is a change in consciousness, this is what is meant by Krishna Consciousness - to actually see reality, which is Krishna, our true selves, and our relationship with Him.
I've heard repeatedly from my siksha Guru that Srila Prabhupada instructed that we must not give up our intelligence. Rather, it must be used in Krishna's service and purified.
Parroting and actually thinking according to sastra are incredibly different in that the first requires no real understanding and the second requires very thorough understanding.
This is why Srila Prabhupada declared repeatedly that he did not want"blind followers," he wanted us to actually understand the sastra to the point that our perception of reality came in line with the teachings of sastra. That is Krishna Consciousness.
I want to point out that my problem is strictly with what you wrote - the wording of it. I am not assuming to know what you intended by it (it could have been just a poor choice of words), I am just addressing how it came across to me.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you did not really mean to write, in essence, that we should shut off our brains and become like programmed robots when we choose to take initiation. Robots can never love, and that is ultimately what Sri Krishna wants from us - our complete and unalloyed love.
y/s Bhaktin Rebecca
Posted by hari dasa @ 11/04/2005 02:27 AM PST
dear bhakta x
you wrote the following:
"Yikes. Do you really think like this? How old are you?"
-i will tell you how i really think and the rest of the dissilusioned and offensive crew.
1) a few weeks ago i was doing a search on the net for articles by HH Danavir Goswami and i found sampradaya sun and to my huge suprise a saw articles blaspheming and accusing my nama guru BTSwami. At first glance one sees a picture of Prabhupada and feels like this is a devotional website but then when one makes an investigation you see that there are many posts by devotees who are NOT in good standing nor contributing much (if at all) to present day iskcon.
Some have accused my guru of breaking the regs and other things without evidence of such apart from hearsay, so as a disciple, when i read such things do you think i should be encouraged and accept these perverted points of view?
2) There are several so called Prabhupada disciples- rocana, radha krsna, bhakti vikasa swami, praghosa etc... who are part of this blasphemy and to be honest they are all not viewed in high opinion by the gbc or by devotees in general apart from those that relish the political side of things. Their sadhana is obviously poor and their love for Prabhupada is poorly absent by their lack of respect and love for their godbrothers wether they be GBC or guru etc....
3) we are now at a time when the internet can make blasphemy and accusation a faster ideal. websites such as these have been deemed unsuitable for sincere devotees due to the nature of the discussions therein as there is not only offense but also speculation as to issues such as guru tattva etc..... it is dangerous for new devotees to read such things and as such, as a not so new devotee myself i feel duty bound to defend present day iskcon (with all its faults) so that some may see that this website is not operating on the absolute platform.
"When did I ever make any statement about him being Guru? "
- you didnt have to, the mood of your email was that of relishing the opportunity to use this site to speak a lot of nonsense and was in agreement with rocana
"This is a site he runs correct?"
-yes, unfortunatly you are right here
"He's been involved with you in debate correct? That's all there is to it."
- i wouldnt call it a debate, rocana does not understand guru tattva what to speak of other aspects of our sidhhanta so it is just him spouting off his insecurities and grievances and myself defending the honor of those he accuses pettily
" I disagree with your sentiment (and some of Rocana's as well), but hey, that's healthy in today's ISKCON isn't it? "
-if you think that is healthy and is needed in iskcon then you do not understand the original purposes of iskcon as created by Prabhupada-iskcon is to uplift and inspire us in KC, since when does minimisation, blasphemy and false accusation get us nearer to Krsna prema? we are not part of a "free thinking" movement, we are to align our minds and thoughts to the siddhanta only, otherwise we are new agey freaks who speak about speaking out and thinking for ourselves, when one takes a guru(no matter what level) it means that we are to abandon our free will and only serve the will of Guru and Krsna. Have you read the books prabhuji?
"You seem to have great opinion of yourself. You think to speak for all of ISKCON and my desires."
-i hate to think about what your desires actually are and i do not claim to speak for all of iskcon because i know also that there are some crazy individuals in it. but i speak for my guru and how he wanted iskcon to flow and he got criticised for trying to make a sincere difference
"Considering you know nothing about me other then a small post on an internet message board (as opposed to the articles that you have posted that clearly identify your mentality). You've assumed it's okay to patronize and insult me. That's a good way to encourage moving forward. "
-excuse me but you wrote "I have no doubt that Rocana Prabhu will once again give a detailed rebuttal to such "pie in the sky sentiment."
do not place responsability for this argument all on me, you started it, besides you are not an honest person otherwise like me you would sign your real name, using an alias(bhakta x) is major impersonalism. what are you scared of??
Posted by Bhakta X @ 11/03/2005 06:10 AM PST
-since when is rocana an authority and guru?
maybe persons like your good self and rocana can set up your own movement, make it perfect and leave iskcon alone, since you do not belong in it nor wish to be in it!
Yikes. Do you really think like this? How old are you?
When did I ever make any statement about him being Guru? This is a site he runs correct? He's been involved with you in debate correct? That's all there is to it. I disagree with your sentiment (and some of Rocana's as well), but hey, that's healthy in today's ISKCON isn't it?
You seem to have great opinion of yourself. You think to speak for all of ISKCON and my desires.
Considering you know nothing about me other then a small post on an internet message board (as opposed to the articles that you have posted that clearly identify your mentality). You've assumed it's okay to patronize and insult me. That's a good way to encourage moving forward.
Posted by Bhatka Y @ 11/03/2005 05:37 AM PST
Wow, presume much Mr. Hari das?
Posted by hari dasa @ 11/03/2005 03:02 AM PST
maybe it would be better if rocana doesnt reply as his replies are full of apasidhhanta and offenses to sincere devotees.
Posted by Gokulananda das @ 11/02/2005 12:29 PM PST
The points made by Hari das are mostly correct. Iskcon, in its universal mission to carry out Sri Chaitanya's salvation for the world, has opened many hearts to the truth. Yet, as a world-wide movement, it is also caught smack in the middle of Kali's insanities; it has thus seen very strange persons and distortions attempt to spoil its true pure purposes. The Kali-yuga Pavana,Lord Chaitranya, continues to sustain all his sincere followers to help them seperate the wheat from the chaff, the true from the false. We should expect all Iskcon leaders to have more honesty and wisdom, and should recognize and support those who do. When the opposite Kali-yuga input seeps in to confuse our ranks, we should not wallow in endless exposes and diatribes. We
should require appropriate corrections from our leadership(and not just lip-service) and should continue to accentuate the positive by our own sincere efforts. As the saying goes "you're either part of the solution or part of the problem". So much of our energies have been wasted in either repeating mistakes or end-less bickering about them. Our unity is our common project and our challenge to one day fulfill Srila Prabhupada's axiomatic desire to co-operate as the real proof of our love for him. We can only pray and hope that this can manifest before most of us depart. Time will tell. Let's be perseverant and tolerant, as was Srila Prabhupada.
Posted by Jahnava @ 11/02/2005 08:27 AM PST
Hari dasa, Rocana is currently traveling and unable to reply to your last article, which rolled off the front page on the sixth day following publication, like all Sun articles do.
Posted by hari dasa @ 11/02/2005 03:57 AM PST
dear bhakta x
it may interest you to know that the sampradaya sun is of no interest to sincere members of iskcon but to whiners like your good self
rocana has removed my article from the front page and has not replied to it as yet
one question bhakta x
-since when is rocana an authority and guru?
maybe persons like your good self and rocana can set up your own movement, make it perfect and leave iskcon alone, since you do not belong in it nor wish to be in it!
Posted by bhakta X @ 11/01/2005 01:07 PM PST
I wonder if the author was severely abused by those who have "rectified themselves?"
A site like the Sampradaya Sun assures we don't just "let it go." That's exactly the mood that has frustrated so many for so long. Of course, the idea of letting things is very subjective within ISKCON.
I have no doubt that Rocana Prabhu will once again give a detailed rebuttal to such "pie in the sky sentiment."
Posted by hari dasa @ 11/01/2005 03:30 AM PST
quote from pandu
" And I'm beginning to wonder if ISKCON is expendible too, because it doesn't appear that Krishna can be found in there."
comment-Krsna is known as Tribangananda- 3fold bending and very very difficult to catch, do you think because of what you have experienced that He is not available in Iskcon? you are sounding like Rocana who is also dissilusioned with iskcon based on what he has experienced.
Think of it this way, and I am trying to help you as i have also had more than my fair share of negative experiences within iskcon although i choose to stay in it.
1)Iskcon is bigger than you think
2)MANY are having positive and enlivening experiences in Iskcon and are having deep realisations
3)Iskcon, like it or not critics, is still the vehicle of Prabhupadas mercy, books and prasada are going out and the Holy Name is still being heard.
The movement is still going on despite what the critics say, in fact you would have to visit mant temples just to see that it is still going on and not just judge the WHOLE movement by what you hear or what you have experienced in your area of limited experience.
So, to leave is actually admitting defeat, what are your options? join another gaudiya society wherein they also have problems and possible conflicting subtle differences in the siddhanta?
Pandu, think about it-where else is there apart from iskcon?
1)you could join Narayan Maharaja and hear about gopi lila and slow down your progress against anartha nivritti
2)Join Tripurari Maharaja and learn how to be a cowherd boy and criticise iskcon further
3)become a rtvik and go to hell because of such deviation from the parampara system
4)locate your family somewhere near a temple that inspires you
you choose pandu and be careful
it is all based on sadhu sanga, for this we need to be aligned to a society because we need to be social.....you cannot do it all at home alone with your family, you need association of strong sadhakas........who do not spend time criticising others but encourage positive and constant spiritual growth.
If you spent less time complaining about BTS and Gita Nagari then your search for Krsna would come to an end mcuh quicker-read madhurya kadambini to see the step by step process and find out which step you are at
Posted by Pandu das @ 10/29/2005 09:06 AM PST
I have a comment on the history aspect.
Eight months ago I was eager to be of direct service to Bhakti-Tirtha Swami, and did whatever I could to help him. I had been very enthusiastic in ISKCON, and had recently been elected as a Gita-nagari community leader. Then Bhakti-Tirtha popped my bubble, so to speak. He did this by showing me that the problems that I had hoped were long-past, were actually alive and well in ISKCON.
The problem was that I saw in my community a person whom ISKCON had determined was a child molester, and that person had been invited here by Bhakti-Tirtha and had been given a unique position of high honor. The fact that Vakresvara had molested a girl was itself fairly historical -- ten years past. However, he made it a present issue by continuing to lie about it and slandering woman (a girl at the time) who reported him. It is also a present issue because he is still ignoring the CPO's restrictions on him. Furthermore, he's even shown sitting in a line with six sannyasis in the current BTG issue, as if he was an unofficial goswami himself, giving more power to the parasite.
So on one hand we have leaders in ISKCON telling everyone that they're doing so much to protect the children now, and on the other hand they're promoting an unrepentant child molester and behaving as if the CPO's office is a necessary evil that they can simply ignore or use as they see fit.
I have a lot of trouble merging these thoughts and observations into my hope that ISKCON is a genuine spiritual society. Bhakti-Tirtha Swami, in conjunction with the other ultra-wonderful ISKCON guru Radhanatha Swami (whom I also held un very high esteem until all this happened at Gita-nagari), actually caused me to lose faith in ISKCON by presenting me with this farce. In fact, nothing could be more difficult for me. I've had to sever my relationships with many of my friends, with my local temple, and with the society I've identified with as a spiritual aspirant for the past ten years.
You've suggested that I find out what the GBC has to say about it. Well what GBC? They don't care about me. Several GBC know about this, probably more than I know. When your godbrother Hari Chakra threatened me, I reported it to the GBC, but they treated it like a hot potato, tossed it around momentarily, and quickly dropped it. Even my guru, Bhaktimarga Swami, said that what was needed was to bring a GBC here to talk with our community about what happened, but it's been about four months with nothing of the sort. It is quite clear that ISKCON sees me and my family as expendible. And I'm beginning to wonder if ISKCON is expendible too, because it doesn't appear that Krishna can be found in there.
Posted by Nitya Siddha dasa @ 10/28/2005 11:49 PM PST
Well written article Hari dasa Prabhu,this is perhaps your most thoughtful paper to date.There is still a little rose tint on those Iskcon glasses your wearing,but at least the shade is getting lighter.Don't always assume that devotees outside of the Iskcon institution are somehow bereft of spiritual activity and as you put it"Have made little positive contribution to Iskcon in the past 20 years"Iskcon is not the only vehicle for preaching and many devotees outside of the institution of Iskcon are engaged in worthwhile preaching projects that have just as much value as any preaching done within the temples of Iskcon.Also I have known and know some devotees who live outside of Iskcon that regularly chant 64 rounds a day and follow all the regs.Not a critism as such just a friendly piece of information to help you get a broader picture of things.Other than that I quite liked your article and must say that I enjoyed reading it.
Nitya Siddha dasa (UK)
Posted by shiva das @ 10/28/2005 06:42 PM PST
A good argument could be made that Iskcon is the least qualified Gaudiya mission to preach because of the baggage that it carries i.e murder, illegal activities, and child abuse. The other Gaudiya organizations do not have recent histories of illegal and immoral behavior. As far as the rest of your writing; reminds me of Americans who believe and are always telling people that America is the "greatest country in the world". Your article was a typical chauvanistic fanstasy comprising insolence and rigamarole which Iskcon banner wavers trot out now and then either to convince others that what they are saying is true, or to convince others that they are "Iskcon men", or simply to kiss up to someone or another by displaying their "loyalty". But nice try, a little dull though, I'd give it a 1.5 out of 5. I'd give it a lower score but the fanatic zeal really came across and was almost amusing.
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