BY: ROCANA DASA
Dec 6, CANADA (SUN) [Revised] — Studying Srila Prabhupada's conversations with ISKCON leaders.
Today's Talks is inspired by Srila Prabhupada's morning walk conversation of November 29, 1975 in Delhi. You can listen to the audio or read the text here.
Joining Srila Prabhupada on this walk were Harikesa, Gopal Krishna, Hansadutta, Tejas, Ambarisha, Krishna-caitanya, and a number of unknown devotees.
As we've discovered in previous Talks, when listening to the audio of this conversation and comparing it to the text folio you'll find that plenty of editing was going on with the recorded conversation. In the case of this morning walk, it's clear that the editing isn't simply random or the elimination of insignificant external sounds, but rather it was edited to 'groom' the content.
In other words, it's apparent that controversial content in this morning walk was purposefully edited out. For example, Hansadutta brings up the whole controversy about the moon and the sun, and at one point Tejas calls somebody a very dirty man. These sections were obviously cut out.
While we have the folio text preceding it, the audio doesn't comes in until the point where Srila Prabhupada is noticing all the kalakendras, which are temporary spiritual/cultural sites where tents, sound systems, etc. are set-up on empty pieces of land. Prominent or wealthy people donate to have these events go on, and Srila Prabhupada notices how many of them are in the vicinity of the temple. He immediately says that they don't give you any spiritual education. They don't tell you what is the atma, who is the real self, what's the difference between a dead and a living body. With these kalakendras there's so much music, dance and art, but nobody asks who's actually singing, and who's actually listening to all this music. Of course, the answer is it's the atma, but they don't know.
Determining how best to introduce the culture so as to attract the minds of conditioned souls by music, festivals, and so on has always been a dilemma or a balancing act in our attempt to spread Krsna consciousness. The big events such as Ratha Yatra and Janmastami are commonly accepted and known as Indian cultural events. When the festivals are focused on less familiar Gaudiya Vaisnava holidays, however, it's hard to get people to appreciate and attend on that basis. In ISKCON today we find that the trend is more and more towards special festivals that might be called the "gray area", such as Diwali. Temples are increasingly trying to lump bonafide ISKCON festivals together with popular Hindu festivals so the temple can enjoy the benefits of high traffic and donations without drawing undue attention to the fact that they're pandering to the cultural demands of the Indian community. Unfortunately, we find that festival events are piggy-backed onto one another, and the more important spiritual events, like Govardhan Puja, take a back seat to events such as Diwali, which Srila Prabhupada never introduced into ISKCON. Other Gaudiya Vaisnava events have been watered down by introducing additions such as fire yajnas and bhajans that are not in line with our Sampradaya Acaryas.
The temples are obviously just catering to the cultural aspect, which of course attracts more of the Indian to come, but this doesn't really serve any philosophical purpose. The philosophy is not pushed or promoted, which was Srila Prabhupada's ultimate goal in holding the festivals in the first place -- to get people in a position where you could explain the absolute truth, just as Srila Prabhupada emphasizes in this walk. Here in Vancouver, one can see the overall effect of this policy. When it's time for the Sunday program class, half of the people walk out of the temple until it's over, and then come back in for the kirtana and prasadam. This demonstrates the Kali Yuga tendency to want to avoid hearing the hard, cold facts of the absolute truth. Many congregants would just as soon have a feel-good experience. Srila Prabhupada, however, had zero tolerance for such nonsense, and never compromised preaching the philosophy in order to cater to the material desires of his audience.
As is often the case on these morning walks, the devotees play the role of the proverbial devil's advocate. That's the case on this day, when Harikesa provided many mundane arguments for Srila Prabhupada to rebut. If you can transcend all Harikesa's giggling, which I find quite annoying, you can marvel at Srila Prabhupada's responses and his overall teaching method, which were highly effective.
Srila Prabhupada is in full mode of direct challenge in this conversation, obvious by his 'kick in your face' attitude towards politicians. Of course, this walk took place in Delhi, where Srila Prabhupada had spent a great deal of time preaching and printing his books prior to coming to the west. In many other statements he's made you can tell that he's very tuned into the political situation in India and has a very negative attitude towards Indian politics.
I didn't count how many times Srila Prabhupada used the word 'rascals' on this morning walk, but it's dozens of times. One of the profound comments he made was to say that only rascals can be cheated by other rascals. An intelligent man cannot be cheated by a rascal. One of the common ways a rascal cheats is by telling you that they're working on something, and they'll be successful in the future. Srila Prabhupada refers to this as "post-dated checks". Of course, they won't post-date their paycheck, but they're willing to tell everyone they'll be successful in the future if you'll give them money.
Some of the devotees on this morning walk became Zonal Acaryas right after Srila Prabhupada disappeared, and they were basically saying the same thing. Their post-dated checks read 'we're going to become as good as Srila Prabhupada, just give us time. We're working on it. Meanwhile, give us all your attention, adoration, distinction, service, and money, and just believe'. As it turned out, we were cheated, which makes us rascals. According to Srila Prabhupada, if we were intelligent they couldn't have gotten away with it. And here we are today, with a slightly different set of circumstances but the same kind of hollow promises. Our faith is tested because of the leadership's chronic failure to live up to previous expectations.
One of the usual topics of conversation on these morning walks is the subject of scientists
claiming that someday they'll be able to use chemicals to produce life. Harikesa brings up the fact that in Russia, the scientists had supposedly put two heads on a dog and kept it alive. Srila Prabhupada immediately mentions Ravana, who had ten heads. As a result he thought he was very intelligent, but of course Rama was more intelligent. We all know how that story ended.
Srila Prabhupada brought up the name of someone called Prabhakara, stating that he'd stayed with him in the past, and he pointed out where they had stayed. I suppose Prabhakara is an important man because the audio editors snipped this part out. What Srila Prabhupada had to say was apparently not too flattering. It seems that this man was unsteady and lost many jobs, and there were criminal cases against him. The audio editors must have concluded that this was not a good thing to have out in public, so they clipped that part out.
The devotees again mentioned the Russians, who at that point in history enjoyed a close alliance with India. Communism and the Cold War were hot subjects in the news. Pakistan was aligned with the United States, which is one of the reasons India was so friendly to Russia during the Cold War. There was a big exhibition of Russian books that was taking place in Delhi at the time, and of course Srila Prabhupada said why don't they exhibit our books, and how can you compare what we have to what they have? One devotee replied that our philosophy is very old, and Srila Prabhupada said:
"So we are giving old wine in new bottle. If it is old, why the up-to-date Western boys are taking? It may be old for you rascals, but those who are intelligent..."
So the western youth were contemporary and intelligent, and they didn't think the philosophy of Krsna consciousness was so 'old'.
Next there's quite a bit of discussion regarding Communism and Marxism. Srila Prabhupada is very much against Communism because of its atheistic philosophy, and he started querying those in attendance, asking what is their philosophy? It was Ambarisha who actually hit on the essence when he said that it's all about matter, it's not about spirit. That matter is supreme. Srila Prabhupada instantaneously had a challenge for that, saying matter doesn't move independently, so why do you think it's supreme? You can't combine matter and have it move. All the big Communist heroes such as Stalin and Lenin have died. They're not moving, and no one can get them moving.
Harikesa mentions that Communism is just a social philosophy, not purporting to be a spiritual philosophy, but Srila Prabhupada immediately responds and says, but it's not perfect Our philosophy is perfect, theirs is imperfect. He mentions that nobody else but India wants anything to do with the Russian philosophy, not even the Chinese, let alone America and the West. The devotees point out that even in the Indian schools they're putting down Vedic philosophy and promoting Communist philosophy, and saying it's because the Indians are so economically backwards. Srila Prabhupada challenges that too, saying the reason India is economically backward is because they gave up their own culture. The Mohammedans ruled in Indian for 800 years and could not subvert the culture, yet the British came along and very craftily went about spoiling it.
Srila Prabhupada refers to Indian culture as being symbolized by khadi cloth. There was a boycott of mill cloth by Gandhi and those leaders who were promoting Indian culture at the time. Basically, there's poor people in every culture, even in American culture. And of course, the Russians are even poorer than the Indians. They can't find enough food to eat, whereas in India the fruits, vegetables, and flowers are readily available.
Harikesa says even though the Russians don't have nice food, they're always trying to be physically very strong. Srila Prabhupada retorts that there's lots of strong animals, like elephants and lions, stronger than any Russian, so they're naturally better than the Russians if the goal is just physical strength. It seems that Harikesa was going to Russia quite often at the time of this morning walk, as was Hansadutta. They were complaining about the lack of food and how everyone is begging, trying to push you for some money.
The whole question of chance comes up, and Srila Prabhupada makes it clear that there's no such thing as chance. There's always a cause behind everything, and you have to look for the cause. If you say it's chance, that means you're not going to look for the cause. Just like if you get infected by some disease, it's not that you just happened to get infected -- there's a reason behind it and you have to figure out what that reason is. This is the essence of our philosophy in the sense that we are given all this knowledge, the primary utilization of which is to figure out what is the real cause of everything. By doing so, you eliminate the whole concept of chance, knowing that there's always an intelligence behind everything. Even though something may seemingly happen spontaneously, it's due to intelligent laws that are in place, created by superior beings, and ultimately, of course, by God.
Srila Prabhupada didn't come to American by chance, nor did we join Krsna consciousness by chance. It wasn't by chance that Srila Prabhupada was walking in Delhi at this time with these particular individuals, and that he was saying what he was saying in regards to the political circumstances that were happening in the world. His statements were very much relevant to the time and to the people who were attending that walk. To what degree these individuals appreciated what Srila Prabhupada had to say and applied it to themselves and to the future of ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada made his departure, that we don't know.
It's very interesting to consider all the talk about Russia in this morning walk, and the fact that Harikesa turned out to be a very powerful GBC member in that region. This was mainly on account of the fact that Russia suddenly and unexpectedly became a great source of recruitment, money and power, and Harikesa primarily held that power -- to such a degree that he ended up becoming so corrupted he thought he could cheat everybody and did, stealing millions of dollars that were rightfully Srila Prabhupada's and Krsna's, to be used in their service. I'm sure time will prove what Srila Prabhupada says in this morning walk to be true - that Harikesa will be the one who is ultimately cheated. Of course, he cheated himself out of the benediction of having Srila Prabhupada as his spiritual master, and all the blessings that could have or should have gone his way. He was cheated out of them by Maya. Everyone's the loser except Krsna, who never loses.
Of course, no one is learning any lessons from this, as far as I can see. There are still big leaders in ISKCON who have the same sort of modus operandi as Harikesa did in the years leading up to his humongous falldown. It's interesting to consider all this in light of this morning walk. In another Delhi walk, Harikesa was playing his usual devil's advocate role, posing questions to Srila Prabhupada, somewhat antagonistically at times. Srila Prabhupada gave him some interesting answers that seemed almost fortuitous about what would become Harikesa's future. Of course, I could be reading too much into it, but we do have the benefit of hindsight to show us the similarities.
Srila Prabhupada then says the Communists have had plenty of time to establish their system, which started way back in 1917. Nearly 50-60 years had passed, and they haven't really accomplished anything, even in the one country they overthrew, namely Russia. Harikesa says that really, Marx was hoping it would be England they took over, and not Russia, because the Communist system works better in an industrialized setting than in an agricultural setting. Srila Prabhupada said then why didn't they accomplish it, if they said it's best? Why didn't they overthrow the U.S. or any of the western capitalist countries? They couldn't accomplish it because their philosophy was incorrect. Really, people are just taking to Communism because they're frustrated. Those of us in the 50-60-something age group can recall quite vividly the mood prevalent during the Cold War, underway at the time this morning walk took place. There was a lot of fear that the communists were making headway and that they were a force to be reckoned with. Of course, the constant threat of nuclear war was also there.
Harikesa brings up the fact that the Communists stress nationalism, whether it's in China or Russia, and Srila Prabhupada states that dogs, they have the same qualifications. They’re always barking at somebody based on what they think is theirs. Srila Prabhupada embellishes this point by barking like a dog, which is quite comical.
Here we find more audio clips that have suspiciously been edited out, where Srila Prabhupada mentions various important Indians such as Aurobindo and Rabindranath Tagore.
At this point, the party was seemingly walking in the government section of Delhi, and walked by one building that was called the Natural History building. This is a very expensive government building, and Srila Prabhupada mentions that the government takes everyone's hard-earned money and builds these elaborate buildings to display nothing, whereas the people they're cheating are made to drink powdered milk, which he considers to be just 'white water'.
At this time the government had so many restrictions and marshal law had been laid down by Indira Gandhi. There were laws about food, you couldn't transport rice, they were even watching over people with cows, so Srila Prabhupada considered this to be real harassment by the government. People can become so harassed that they'll commit suicide because of the government interference. When they can't adjust everything to these methods, then they'll just start a war.
All those who have studied Srila Prabhupada's conversations will soon come to the conclusion that he was very much aware of international politics, and was also very attuned to the need for good management. He made it clear that people are suffering on account of bad government and bad management, and that you have to judge by the obvious results. If people can't get enough food, people are unhappy, people are acting like they're harassed through taxation, the roads and the facilities are poorly maintained, etc., then people will rise up and fight. One could easily say that similar things are happening in ISKCON today, in many of our temples. It's obvious that they're not being maintained, and the people are not happy. So according to Srila Prabhupada's formula, you have to point to the management and ask what's wrong with the way they're managing? Why are they not taking care of these problems, doing the needful? What is it that disqualifies them from managing properly? While it's taboo to talk about these things in ISKCON, fortunately human nature compels us to push towards necessary change regardless of the resistance met along the way.
This concludes the morning walk.
