Even
from PRACTICAL point of view disciples belong to one who gives discipline to
them please (refer to my article).
You can NOT
NOT NOT have one initiating guru (less qualified or not liberated) then
expect Srila Prabhupada will give DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage to you.
These THEN makes TWO Diksa gurus: one initiates at FORMALITY and another
LIBERATED (Srila Prabhupada) at Madhyama adhikari stage. That is against the
sastra.
Caitanya-caritamrta Adi lila 1.35 - The Spiritual Masters:
"A devotee must have only one
initiating spiritual master because in the scriptures acceptance of more
than one is always forbidden."
Krsna Book 80 - The Meeting of
Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana:
"The spiritual master who instructs the
disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual
master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My
representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the
initiator spiritual master is one."
Suria
dasa's audacious proposal is he wants to get rid of Srila Prabhupada and
REPLACE him with bogus GBC voted conditioned soul “Diksa” gurus. We have PROVED
his conditioned soul “Diksa” guru theory is completely bogus. He tried to justify
Srila Prabhupada’s quote “ who are less qualified or not liberated,
but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following
the disciplic succession. “ but it backfired. The initiator is ONE.
So let
us ask him TWO questions:
1) EXACTLY
when did Srila Prabhupada EVER state that he has STOPPED giving DIKSA at
Madhyama Adhikari stage to the countless generations of devotees still to come?
(refer to my article).
2) Since NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada was EVER
given that they ARE Acarya (Uttama Adhikari) HOW can they give DIKSA?
I am NOT talking of FORMALITY of initiation.
(Refer to my article).
Conclusion:
The
question of who gives DIKSA in ISKCON next after Srila Prabhupada ONLY arises
IF it is ***PROVED*** beyond doubt that Srila Prabhupada is NOT capable of
giving DIKSA at Madhyama Adhikari stage. Madhyama adhikari is the RECIPIENT of
DIKSA. We are NOT talking of FORMALITY initiation.
Srila Prabhupada
75-08-04 Letter to Madhudvisa:
"This is the
function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The
GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you
should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I
am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform.
This I want."
Many of
the quotes below may be repeated, but I have also added some extra notes. Please read below:
SB 1.7.22 P - The Son of Drona
Punished:
"The spiritual master, by his words,
can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge
transcendental, which alone can extinguish the fire of material
existence."
Srila Prabhupada and his words are on the
transcendental platform therefore his purports to the SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM is the CURRENT
LINK. AS LONG AS WE HAVE PRABHUPADA'S PURPORTS TO THE
SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM HE WILL BE OUR
CURRENT LINK BECAUSE **THE REAL** MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM
ARE ***HIS PURPORTS***.
SB 2.9.7
"As already
stated, Brahma is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he
was initiated by the Lord Himself, the MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS COMING
DOWN BY DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION, and in order to receive THE REAL MESSAGE OF
SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM one should approach THE CURRENT LINK, or spiritual
master, in the chain of disciplic succession."
CC ADI 1.35
"There is NO
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER'S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER
HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should
be the pride of the disciple."
Srila
Prabhupada is IDENTICAL with his PURPORTS.
SB 1.2.18 P - Divinity
and Divine Service:
"Bhagavata
book and person are identical."
Adi
1.99 T - The Spiritual Masters
"One of the
bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and
the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion."
Adi 1.100 - The
Spiritual Masters
"Through the
actions of these two bhagavatas the Lord instills the mellows of transcendental
loving service into the heart of a living being, and thus the Lord, in the
heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee's love."
68-05-28 Letter to Malati:
"Similarly, the Spiritual Master also can be
present wherever the disciple wants. A Spiritual Master is the
principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of
places by the principle of relay monitoring."
Suria das prabhu wrote:
“And this understanding IN no way supports the outlandish claim of the
Ritviks that Srila Prabhupada will remain diksa guru even after he left the
material world. Srila Prabhupada can appoint a Guru while he is around but he
did not do so as he said... "on my order'' one can actually be Guru. But
since he did not order, it means one can be a Guru after Srila
Prabhupada departs where it is confirmed as: Because in my presence one should
not become guru".
So AT LAST we have an ADMISSION
Srila Prabhupada DID NOT ORDER. Thank you very much, Suria das
Prabhu.
Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan:
Prabhupada: "When I order, "You become guru," he
becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's
it."
“When I order” -- NO ORDER
WAS GIVEN
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, October 28,
1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupada: "Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A
guru can become guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise
nobody can become guru."
Physical presence of the spiritual
master is NOT required. We have to choose the PROMINENT and Srila Prabhupada IS
the PROMINENT ACARYA .
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968:
"Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps.
Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to
Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between
Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that
Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him
directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was
taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned
only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku;
and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We
have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are
many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record
all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick
up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to."
Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.8 Purport - Answers by Citing the
Lord' s Version:
"The potency of transcendental sound is never
minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent."
Srila Prabhupada is ever
present in his Murti (Deity) form - in ALL temples we do Guru Puja to
HIM. Offer Vyasa Puja to HIM. His books are there. His CDs are there. Srila
Prabhupada’s words are there - his instructions. The word used above is
“APPARENTLY absent” so it does not mean Srila Prabhupada is no longer present
he is “Apparently” absent.
Srila Prabhupada's Lecture, January 13, 1969, Los Angeles:
"…the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not
considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue
of Krsna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye
sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body
as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical
body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the
spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that
is living."
Caitanya-caritamrta Adi lila 1.35 - The Spiritual Masters:
"There is no difference between the spiritual master's
instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence,
therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple."
The disciplic succession even in
Srila Prabhupada’s books do NOT have this Maharaja that Maharaja etc added to
it. 30. SRI
SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA." That’s it.
Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Upendra, February 13, 1968:
"There are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation.
One is called Brahma Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession
from Brahma; another Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri
Sampradaya; another is coming down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka
Sampradaya; another Sampradaya is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or
Visnu Swami. These are four bona fide Sampradayas that are accepted by the bona
fide spiritualists. The Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original neither the
Impersonalist Sampradaya or party can help us. At the present moment there are
so many Sampradayas, but we have to test them about their method of disciplic
understanding. Anyway, all the four Sampradayas above mentioned, they are after
worshipping the Supreme Lord Visnu, in His different Expansions, and some of
them are in favor of worshipping Radha Krishna. In the later age the Brahma
Sampradaya was handed down though Madhva Acarya; in this Madhva Acarya
disciplic succession came Isvara Puri. This Isvara Puri was accepted as
Spiritual Master of Lord Caitanya. Therefore, we being in disciplic succession
of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we are known as the Madhva Sampradaya. And because Lord
Caitanya appeared in Bengal, which country is called Gaudadesa, our Sampradaya
party is known as Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. But all these Sampradayas are
non-different from one another because they believe and worship the Supreme
Lord. Any other Sampradaya who are Impersonalist or voidist or non-devotee,
they are rejected by us. MY GURU MAHARAJA WAS IN THE 10TH GENERATION FROM LORD
CAITANYA. WE ARE 11TH FROM LORD CAITANYA. THE DISCIPLIC SUCESSION IS AS
FOLLOWS: 1. SRI KRISHNA, 2. BRAHMA, 3. NARADA, 4. VYASA, 5. MADHVA, 6.
PADMANABHA, 7. NRIHARI, 8. MADHAVA, 9. AKSHOBHYA, 10. JAYATIRTHA, 11.
JNANASINDHU, 12. PURUSOTTAMA, 13. VIDYANIDHI, 14. RAJENDRA, 15. JAYADHARMA, 16.
PURUSOTTAMA, 17. VYASATIRTHA, 18. LAKSMIPATI, 19. MADHAVENDRA PURI, 20. ISVARA
PURI (ADVAITA, NITYANANDA) 21. SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, 22. (SVARUPA, SANATANA)
RUPA, 23.(JIVA) RAGHUNATH, 24. KRISHNA DASA, 25. NAROTTAMA, 26. VISVANATHA, 27.
(BALADEVA.) JAGANNATHA, 28. (BHAKTIVINODE) GAURA-KISORA, 29. SRILA
BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI, SRI BARSHABHANAVIDAYITADAS, 30. SRI SRIMAD
BHAKTIVEDANTA."
Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.29.17 Purport - Explanation of
Devotional Service by Lord Kapila:
"In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that
one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual
knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA,
A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN
THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER
ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL
MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS."
Isopanisad 12:
"The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional
service--which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of
Godhead--one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In
other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on
the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. The
pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material
affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material
bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious
principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of
devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this
way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of
religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy
teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION
ACARYOPASANA--"ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA" -- and
Krsna's statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, "This
supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession."
Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called
acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These
rogues are the MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS in human society. Because there is no
religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They
cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the
Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall
be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD
CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS
PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS,
WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION."
Srila
Prabhupada IS our BONA FIDE spiritual master from TIME ETERNAL. And those who
reject him are deviants who are after PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT personal worship,
money, followers.
Bg 4.42 P -
Transcendental Knowledge:
A BONA FIDE spiritual
master is in the disciplic succession from TIME ETERNAL, and he does not
deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as they were imparted
millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of
Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore,
follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself and
BEWARE OF SELF-INTERESTED PEOPLE AFTER PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT WHO DEVIATE
OTHERS FROM THE ACTUAL PATH.
Srila Prabhupada Pranati
nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhu-tale
srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine
namah--obeisances; om--address; visnu-padaya--unto him who is at the feet of
Lord Visnu; krsna-presthaya--who is very dear to Lord Krsna; bhu-tale--on the
earth; srimate--all-beautiful; bhaktivedanta-svamin--A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami;
iti--thus; namine--who is named.
I offer my
respectful obeisances unto His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus
feet.
namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine
nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine
namah--obeisances; te--unto you; sarasvate deve--servant of Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Gosvami; gaura-vani--the message of Lord Caitanya; pracarine--who are
preaching, nirvisesa--(from) impersonalism; sunya-vadi--(from) voidism;
pascatya--Western; desa--countries; tarine--who are delivering.
Our
respectful obeisances are unto you, O spiritual master, servant of
Sarasvati Gosvami. You are kindly preaching the message of Lord Caitanyadeva
and delivering the Western countries, which are filled with
impersonalism and voidism.
Sooooo-----WHO
is DELIVERING?
Suria das prabhu writes:
[Mahesh Prabhu wrote:
"Seen as Uttama
Adhikari" is NOT the same as ACCEPT the Uttama Adhikari. That is just
jugglery of words."
What is this word jugglery? I see
Srila Prabhupada as an Uttama Adhikari, what is the difference between ''seen''
or "accept"? ]
Suria das Prabhu wrote EARLIER:
“Similarly
if any of Srila Prabhupada's disciple or anyone is preaching and
inspiring devotees than he can be seen as a Uttama Adikari by his respective
disciples. It does not matter if such a Spiritual master comes from ISKCON,
Gaudiya math or anywhere else, the main point here is
"PREACHING".”
So we can see all Suria das prabhus attempt is to bring
UTTAMA ADHIKARI Srila Prabhupada to his level of conditioned soul
“gurus”. This is all bogus. HOW can you see conditioned soul “gurus”
manufactured by fake GBC to be “seen” as Uttama Adhikari?
They are opportunist, they use Srila Prabhupada’s
fame to gain FREE servants , money, hidden sex life etc . Bait and switch
- they say something nice about Srila Prabhupada but they want you to become
THEIR disciples use you and screw money and out of you. It is a Con trick.
760628bj.nv Conversations:
Pusta
Krsna: What about
the so-called gurus that take a little bit here and a little bit there?
Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are
so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. If one does not
speak what Krsna speaks, he is not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is
your misfortune. What can be done?
Pusta
Krsna: Some of
them will say some things that Krsna says, but they'll take from other places
also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He's most dangerous. He's most
dangerous. He is opportunist. He's finding out customer, something
here... According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will
be pleased. So he is not guru. He's a servant. He wants to serve the so-called
disciples so that he may be satisfied and pay him something. He's servant. He's
not guru. Guru is the master. You cannot disobey guru. But if you become a
servant, you want to please the disciple by flattering him to get his
money, then you are not guru, you are servant. Just like a servant
pleases the master. He's not guru. He's servant. So our position should be
servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means heavy. You cannot
utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.
