No Jiva-souls 'Originate' from Maha-Vishnu's Body
BY: GAURAGOPALA DASA
Maha Visnu
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
Oct 08, AUSTRALIA (SUN) — No jiva-souls 'originate' from Maha-Vishnu's Body and enters His mahat-tattva dream creation even though they are planted as seed from His glance over the material creation.
We all can enter Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva dream creation above, however no-one originates from Maha-Vishnu's dreaming mahat-tattva creation OR the Vraja river or His Body.
Srila Prabhupada - "The spark of soul "originally" comes from the spiritual world to the material world . . . there is a bona fide method for the attainment of spiritual perfection by the spiritual spark of soul, and, if he is properly guided, then he is very easily sent back home, back to Godhead, where from he originally fell." - (1968 letter by Prabhupada to Canadian cardiologist Wilfred G. Bigelow.)
Srila Prabhupada - "Of course, everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But, in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship (our nitya-siddha body) with the Lord". (Introduction to Bhagavad-gita As It Is.)
Srila Prabhupada - "Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarupa. By the process of devotional service, one can 'revive' that svarupa, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position." (Introduction to Bhagavad-gita As It Is).
If you revive, regain or re-establish someone who has fallen from a managerial position that means he/she was once 'originally' in that position of management. Similarly, if you revive and re-establish an eternal occupation like ones svarupa, that means the 'memory' of ones nitya-siddha body is again remembered, re-established and regained. It is incorrect to believe that the living entities 'originally' appeared from a dormant state from the Body of Maha Vishnu.
Is it obvious one is reviving the memory of their perpetual nitya-siddha body that one has always had, but has been covered by ones ignorance like the clouds covering the Sun.
We see that the living entities are falling from somewhere but 'originally' long, long, long, long ago before being in the material dreams of Maha-Vishnu, they originally were in Goloka from where they have fallen, not as their nitya-siddha body but rather as their secondary baddha-jiva dream state. And by the mercy of Krishna's pure devotees, they are always being called back to remember their nitya-siddha bodies in Goloka from which they have ALL fallen from.
We can only enter Maha-Vishnu's dark mahat-tattva cloud, which exists in one corner of the Spiritual Sky (Brahmajyoti) by first using our free will to no longer 'choose' to serve Krishna. Now being only 'aware' of our secondary nitya-baddha sub-conscious state and 'unaware' of Krishna and our own nitya-siddha body in Goloka, we foolishly continue on and enter Maha-Vishnu's mahat-tattva and given ethereal and biological bodily forms by Him.
When one is fed-up with the mahat-tattva and not fit to return home to Goloka, one may enter the Transcendental Body of Maha-Vishnu or His Vraja River or the 'impersonal aspect' of their own sub-conscious state (Impersonal Brahmajyoti)
Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from Brahma sayujya (The Impersonal Brahmajyoti), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long before that even, he was with Krishna." - (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972)
The above comment by Srila Prabhupada also means NO jiva-soul originates from Maha-Vishnu's Body, His Vraja River, His material creation or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti
These nitya-baddha sub-conscious states are also reached after the dissolution of the mahat-tattva, by ALSO not being qualified to go back to being 'aware' of ones nitya-siddha perpetual body in the 'eternal presents' of Goloka. Therefore no-one originates from the Vraja River, Maha-Vishnu's Body or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
Therefore the Vraja River and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti only caters for the dreamless nitya-baddha secondary sub-conscious 'dormant' dream state of the marginal living entity or nitya-siddha body's inner renegade 'sub-conscious 'mind' (nitya-baddha state) only activated into a reality 'projected first' to the perishable mahat-tattva material creation of Maha-Vishnu by non-Krishna conscious 'desires', 'thoughts' and 'dreams'.
Maha-Vishnu's material dreams, being God, are not false or unreal, for He has the ability to dream 'reality, be it perishable or imperishable'. His entire mahat-tattva creation however is destined to decay and is therefore considered illusion because of being perishable. Therefore every vessel possessed by the baddha-jiva as well as all inert matter within His mahat-tattva dream is in constant change.
What Maha-Vishnu dreams is real but temporary although, it is also important to understand that His dreams are simultaneously the marginal living entities mistaken non-Krishna conscious dreams that are expressed and experienced as a temporary 'reality' through their secondary sub-conscious extension state known as the baddha-jiva.
This nitya-baddha inferior sub-consciousness enters the mahat-tattva as a temporary dream state of projected consciousness that only exists when the marginal living entity is no longer 'aware' of their nitya-siddha bodily full potential of serving Krishna unconditionally.
It also must be understood that the Vedas are mostly written for the material dream or the comatose dream state of the marginal living entity that is projected as the 'sub-conscious nitya-baddha' condition to the mahat-tattva to possess an almost eternal dissent of unlimited 'embodied' vessels or containers that caters for the nitya-siddha's projected baddha-jiva sub-conscious DREAM state.
Srila Prabhupada - The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30)
ONLY our dreaming nitya-baddha sub-conscious state or lower self is given material ethereal and biological vessels by Maha-Vishnu so one can act out our mistaken non-Krishna Consciousness 'desires,' thoughts', and nonsense 'dreams' within His mahat-tattva (material creation).
This only happens when one selfishly uses their free-will and chooses to no longer serve Krishna or God. Therefore it is in this way the marginal living entity 'sub-consciously' leaves Goloka and their authentic nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body.
Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." - (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes)
The imperishable Goloka Planet and the surrounding Vaikuntha planets take up 75% of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti while the perishable Mahat Tattva above takes up 25%.
We as the baddha-jiva lower self consequently ONLY enter the Body of Maha Vishnu at the termination of the material creation due to not being qualified to, or choose not to go back home back to Godhead, back to the realization of our full consciousness (nitya-siddha body) in Goloka Vrndavana from where we have all 'originally' began our 'sub-conscious' journey from long, long, long, long ago.
It is therefore important to 'realize' that NO SOULS 'ORIGINATE' FROM MAHA-VISHNU, OR THE VRAJA RIVER OR THE IMPERSONAL BRAHMAJYOTI
Nothing is lost or gained in Goloka and Vaikuntha except for our memory and 'awareness' of who we really are which is the full potential and 'awareness' of our genuin nitya-siddha perpetual bodily identity.
Everything is set eternally there in Goloka in a state of the marginal living entities 'full potential of originality and loving selfless service to Krishna' within the 'eternal presents' of Goloka as nitya-siddha.
This means ALL marginal living entities or so called jiva sparks, ORIGINALLY have a nitya-siddha-svarupa two armed body like Krishnas that is eternally unchangeable, eternally youthful, eternally original and eternally a person of sat, chit, ananda, VIGRAHA like Krishna's Bodily Form. However ones rasa or relationship with Krishna or God can change in Goloka where one can also have a four armed bodily 'servitude' form like Vishnu in the Vaikuntha planets serving Vishnu.
If there is no past or future, as we know it in the material world, and there is only the 'perpetual present' in Goloka and Vaikuntha, then we are all in a perpetual state of originality which means eternally youthful and everfresh.
Remember, the marginal living entity leaves Goloka, not as ones eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa body, but rather via their sub-conscious 'dreams', 'thoughts' and 'imagination' (nitya-baddha).
So just as ones present material body never changes while one is dreaming they are a King, in a similar way, ones 'nitya-siddha svarupa' body also never changes while one is living out their mistaken dreams in the material world. The nitya-siddha-svarupa body is fixed and secured perpetually within the 'eternal present, which is an eternal state of originality' that has no past and future.
This means when one finishes their dreams within the material world (mahat-tattva) and again become 'aware' of their full potential Krishna Conscious 'svarupa body, it is like waking up from a dream and finding themselves as the perpetual spiritual body they always were and always have been.
Srila Prabhupada explains it this way -"There is nothing to be gained in Goloka, only regained"
Srila Prabhupada - "So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long, long, long, long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second". (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia.)
Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila" (Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia (To Madhudvisa Swami)
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, you are not conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha Krsna Bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, ". (Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977)
It is important to understand that ALL marginal living entities, ALL of us 'originally' come from Goloka-Vrndavana and are ALL 'in a perpetual state of originality' (meaning for ever fresh and youthful) are endowed with a two-armed form like Krishna's.
What makes things confusing to several is that some jiva-souls, who have actually manifested as their inferior secondary baddha-jivas while in the material creation, stay in the material creation or mahat-tattva for what seems to be an almost eternity!
This means many baddha-jiva souls enter the Body of Maha-Vishnu or the impersonal Brahmajyoti at the dissolution of each mahat-tattva creation if they are not qualified to reunite with their nitya-siddha full potential or perpetual body.
In this way, the baddha-jiva sub-consciousness projection that starts off as a non Krishna conscious dream condition projected from the marginal living entities nitya-siddha body in Goloka is a formless state consciousness that is sometimes referred to as particles of spirit, spiritual atoms, sparks or molecules. The baddha-jiva only manifests through form when a bodily vessel is provided by Maha-Vishnu from within His mahat-tattva that clothes the secondary baddha-jiva.
With this explanation, the following comment by Srila Prabhupada is correctly understood.
Srila Prabhupada - "In His form as Karanodakasayi Vishnu the Lord impregnates material nature by His glance. The transcendental molecules of that glance are particles of spirit, or spiritual atoms, which appear in different species of life according to the seeds of their individual karma from the previous cosmic manifestation". (Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 5.69
Srila Prabhupada - "Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna. (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972)
Srila Prabhupada - "The seeds of their individual karma from the previous cosmic manifestation" is significant to this comment from Srila Prabhupada because it means that if one is caught up in the dream material creation of Maha-Vishnu over and over again within unlimited manifestations of the maha-tattva creation, it does not change the fact that 'originally' before first appearing in the maha-tattva within ethereal and then biological restricted vessels, and then eventually along the journey, enters the body of Maha-Vishnu, Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti over and over and over and over again over many creations of the mahat-tattva, they were ALL with Krishna in Goloka-Vrndavana.
Srila Prabhupada - "Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only up to Brahmasayujya (Impersonal liberated state in the impersonal Brahmajyoti, or liberated temporally in the Body of Maha-Vishnu, or the Vraja River) but falls down. (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972)
Srila Prabhupada - "But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972.)
Srila Prabhupada - "Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila-both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya's clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead" (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972.)
Srila Prabhupada - "This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss" (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami in Australia 1972.)
Gayatra
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
It is imperative to recognize that all marginal living entities originally come from Goloka long, long, long, long, long before there 'awareness' of themselves was that of a mundane 'spiritual spark', an 'atom' in an effulgence or a 'molecule' or dormant within the Body of Maha-Vishnu, the Vraja River or the impersonal Brahmajyoti that was gained AFTER they first fell from Goloka, and AFTER spending millions of life times in the mahat-tattva.
This is an important revelation at a time (the beginning of the 21st century) when many Hindu traditions foolishly mislead others to believe their origins are from the Brahma-sayujya Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, the Vraja River or the Body of Maha-Vishnu. All these states of dormant consciousness are only attained after ones nitya-baddha sub-consciousness first passes through the mahat-tattva creation of Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada in his lectures always says that originally we were all Krishna-conscious living entities and on the Hare Krishna album He addresses a large audience with the words: "We are all 'originally' Krishna conscious entities"
Meaning we do not 'ORIGINATE' from Maha-Vishnu, His Vraja River or the Impersonal Brahmajyoti.
It is therefore very clear that original and perpetually the marginal living entities are perpetually established as their nitya-siddha bodily foundation in Goloka and remains that way without beginning or end.
It must be pointed out clearly that the living entity is always marginal because of the ability to stay in Goloka or go to the mahat-tattva. Marginal also means the ability to choose as Srila Prabhupada explains. Furthermore the jiva-tattva can never become Vishnu tattva, such an idea is impersonalism'.
The word 'marginal' means we living independent living entities are separate beings from Krishna yet factually always dependent on Krishna and His energies. When Srila Prabhupada referred to ALL marginal living entities in Goloka, he meant they had the ability to use their free will and choose to serve Krishna, or choose do their own thing with in the material creation or mahat-tattva construction of Maha-Vishnu.
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Krsna says, "yes, you go."
Professor - "Are there any souls that are always good? ...They're not foolish, they don't fall down?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Majority, ninety percent, they are always good. They never fall down".
Professor - "So we're among the ten percent?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes" Talk in Los Angeles on June 23, 1975 between Prabhupada and a professor.
If that choice and free will to choose did not exist in Goloka or Vaikuntha, then we would be no better than assimilated androids.
The mahat-tattva caters for up to 10% of marginal living entities or devotees who choose to ignore Krishna and simultaneously their own perpetual eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa body they serve Krishna as. In this way they choose to USE their free will that all marginal living entities have, to live out their own dream creations within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu in the mahat-tattva cloud as their DREAMING nitya-baddha inferior sub-consciousness that is also known as the jiva-tattva and about another 170 other 'jiva' names in Sanskrit.
Free will is there is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities in Goloka so they can use their own individuality, identity and personality to express a personal service to Krishna, or, if they choose, they can mise use it and enter the dreams of Maha-Vishnu within the mahat-tattva and forget Krishna and the svarupa body they serve Krishna as.
Srila Prabhupada - "They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this". (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course-May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
The word 'marginal' means borderline (tatastha) or the freewill and ability to choose. It is not some place in the creation but rather denotes the 'nature' of the jiva-tattva.
The foremost meaning of the word 'marginal' is the ability for one to use their free will and choose to remain either Krishna Conscious as their endless nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka-Vrndavana, or nitya-baddha sub-conscious contained in counterfeit bodily vessels within the material creation or mahat-tattva of Maha-Vishnu.
Many sceptics and those who foolishly believe we originate from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or the Vraja River or the Body of Maha Vishnu ask- "Please where have you heard this idea that we originally came from Goloka? Who is teaching you this? Is this your own understanding?"
ANSWER-
Srila Prabhupada teaches us - "These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities". (letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, therefore we may fall down from Vaikuntha at any moment. Iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa. (Lecture Washington DC Temple 1976)
No one's perpetual devotional body (nitya-siddha-svarupa) falls from Goloka-Vrndavana/Vaikuntha, the Kingdom of God, that is not possible. One only 'thinks' they are fallen or 'dreams' (as their nitya-baddha consciousness) they are fallen but in genuine reality ones authentic bodily self never falls down.
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually No one falls from Vaikuntha, We really do not fall". That's because we only think we are fallen, or dream we are this material body or that material body. But this 'dreaming' means we have forgotten our original situation serving Krishna due to our sub-conscious dreaming that transports us to a far, far away place (the mahat tattva) without Krishna.
That far away place or 'dark cloud for the dreaming' is a real manifestation but temporary and created by the Lords sleeping Maha-Vishnu expansion; He creates the material impermanent formation known as the mahat-tattva that takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky or the Brahmajyoti.
Srila Prabhupada - The Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. Srimad Bhagavatam 1.16.26-30
Krishna always exists, even if I choose to forget Krishna and my real position as nitya-siddha and transform my consciousness to the nitya-baddha sub-conscious state, where I can create various ethereal and biological bodies identities and forms in the material world.
These counterfeit ethereal and biological bodily forms possessed by the baddha-jiva sub-consciousness have absolutely no resemblance to my real nitya-siddha body, however, they are of the same quality as myself yet on a level of a secondary 'un-consciousness dream state' that is unaware of Krishna and the body I original serve Krishna as.
So where are we from? Are we falling down from spiritual world? Where we with Krsna or not? Do the souls fall down from the Spiritual World due to their envy of the Lord?
Srila Prabhupada - "Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT iccha-dvesa samutthena sarge yanti parantapa". (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very, very, very, very long duration; therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned (nitya-baddha). (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami and Australian devotees 1972)
Some incorrectly believe we come from the dormant Impersonal Brahmajyoti and NOT from Goloka as follows - "The fallen souls come from the marginal location within the Brahmajyoti or creation and not from Vaikuntha".
The correct understanding is the jiva-tattva manifests in two classes of souls who come into this material world or mahat-tattva from Goloka.
One class comes from the Vaikuntha planets by the obligation of nitya-lila, the everlasting pastimes of Krishna.
The other comes by their mistaken desire to enjoy separate from Krishna therefore all living entities within the mahat-tattva originate from Vaikuntha or Goloka.
They are all seen to be inside the jurisdiction of the Brahmanda, the mahat-tattva (material universe), but for the first class, that is only a play, 1i1a. They come from that higher plane of Vaikuntha only to take part in the Lord's pastimes and then go back while the other class spends life times seeking out their selfish desires.
Therefore ultimately there is only one class of marginal living entities or jiva-tattva souls that are ALL independent, yet dependent expansions of Krishna (78% of Krishna's qualities as their full potential nitya-siddha body).
ALL marginal living entities that enter the mahat-tattva come from Goloka-Vrndavana or Krsnaloka. They have foolishly chosen to enter the material creation and have all 'originally' come from Krsnaloka first.
They enter the material creation, not as their nitya-siddha body but as the secondary nitya-baddha dream state! There is another class of 'living entities' called Vishnu-Tattvas who are all direct expansions of Krishna with 98% of Krishna's qualities.
It is important to comprehend that the nitya siddha body can also manifest a sub-consciousness state of secondary inferior provision that ALL nitya-siddhas can activate if they desire.
This dream state of non-Krishna conscious 'thoughts' 'dreams' and 'desires' that enters the material creation, is called the nitya-baddha-jiva.
Therefore the Impersonalist Yogis and Mayavadis can 'think' or 'dream' they appear as an 'all pervasive bright 'dreamless' 'dormant' light', however both the conditioned state in the mahat-tattva and dreamless dream state in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti are an illusion manufactured in the darkness of ones secondary nitya-baddha marginal identity that is the projected sub-consciousness (remember when the light is turned out you no longer see your body or the associates of your body) found within the shadowy non-Krishna conscious dreams of the nitya-siddha's alternative nitya-baddha existence,
This state of 'sub-consciousness' only exists because one 'chooses' to is forget Krishna as well as there own nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious body (vigraha) they serve Krishna as.
Factually the nitya-siddha body never leaves Goloka, ones genuine permeant identity and nitya-siddha body is always and has always been that personal individual bodily identity even if they 'dream' or 'imagine' they are nitya-baddha!
Only in the deep darkness of ones ignorant sub-consciousness does one exist as a spiritual spark or an atom of effulgence. The material universe and the Impersonal Brahmajyoti is also the dream of the marginal living entity. Maha-Vishnu is an expansion of Lord Krishna that creates the mahat-tattva, and is the Lord of the material universe (mahat-tattva) and maintainer of all the marginal living entities who have entered His 'dream' creation.
Nitya-siddha is when we are in our natural pure bodily state of reality, eternally liberated in Goloka, serving God or Krishna.
Nitya-baddha state is when we are in our unnatural impure state of transitory reality eternally conditioned in the mahat tattva, serving one's selfish interests, unaware of their permanently real nitya-siddha authentic self in Goloka.
Our material bodily vessels (both ethereal and biological) belong to Maha-Vishnu and are part and parcels of His mahat-tattva creation (non different from the mahat-tattva). Maha Vishnu represents Krishna in the mahat-tattva, which is controlled by His 33 million demigods whose bodies are also material 'posts' and part of Maha Vishnu's dreaming material creation.
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
In this way there are only two classes of living entities known as Vishnu-Tattva and jiva-tattva and they ALL 'originate' from Goloka-Vrndavana the eternal abode of Krishna and no souls at all originate from Maha-Vishnu.
Hari Bol, all glories to Srila Prabhupada
Your fallen servant,
Gauragopala dasa
