Regarding Gandhi
BY: MAHESH RAJA
Sep 20, UK (SUN) — Srila Prabhupada: "No... But because he did not understand Rama, therefore he cannot go to the kingdom of God."
Room Conversation, September 2, 1973, London
Prabhupada:Well, they do not believe in astrology. Therefore they cannot take any step. They do not believe in next life, so they cannot take any step. And whether it is a fact or not, because they do not believe in next life, so what is the use of taking step? Is it as good as to say that Jawaharlal Nehru has become Indra. If somebody says like that, so they'll have to discard this thing also, and they have to discard that thing also. Because they do not believe in the next life. Simply by presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is, we can defy all these rascals. Everything is there. Bhagavad-gita was not presented as it is. That is the defect. The first thing is: tatha dehantara-praptih. Nobody understands. And they are students of Bhagavad-gita. Even Gandhi, he did not understand, dehantara-praptih. All these political leaders, they do not understand what is dehantara-praptih. What do you think, Bhadra Krsna? The dehantara-praptih, do they understand?
Bhadra Krsna: It's not something known.
Prabhupada: Yes. They do not understand.
Guest (1): (Bengali) Gandhiji, he was politician, he was actually not devotee, and he could not understand Bhagavad-gita. But how the name of Rama has come when he died? The name of Rama, Hare Rama, has come from his last word. How it has come. It is, it is...
Prabhupada: Practice, practice. Raghupati raghava raja rama.
Guest (1): So that came at the last word.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (1): It is due to his pious or practice.
Prabhupada: Practice. That will act, that will act, that will act.
Guest (1): So this was my question about how, he was not acting, but...,
Prabhupada: No. He did not know. But because he was chanting raghupati raghava raja rama, that has given him this effect, yes. On account of chanting. But he really did not understand. Just like the same example, the Mohammedan. He said "ha rama." He wanted to speak "harama," but it become "ha rama." That is the... He did not know anything about Rama, but the name Rama is so powerful that although he said, "harama," it effected. Yes. But Gandhi may not know the purpose of Bhagavad-gita, but as he chanted "ha rama," that has been effective.
Pearl: I wondered what "Rama" meant when we say the mantra, Hare Rama, you see.
Prabhupada: Rama means...
Guest (3): So it was not due to his pious activities, but only he was practicing.
Prabhupada: No, that is pious activity, that is pious activity.
Guest (1): That is why at the time of death he spoke Rama, raghupati raghava raja rama.
Prabhupada: He was a pious man.
Guest (1): He was pious man.
Prabhupada: Undoubtedly.
Guest (1): So he chanted "Rama" in practice.
Prabhupada: Daily he was chanting raghupati raghava raja rama. So...,
Guest (3): (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. Where this chanting effect will go? Yes. The chanting... Hare Krsna. But I mean to say that he could not teach what Rama.
Guest (1): (laughs) No.
Prabhupada: That is his misfortune. But in spite of his misfortune, because he was practiced to chant the name of Rama, he was pious. Although he was ignorant. He was absorbed in thought of politics. He should have, if he would have understood that Rama is a fact, Krsna is a fact... That he did not understand. Then he would have preached the glories of Rama, glories of Krsna. He took the chanting of Rama for his political purposes. He utilized for political purpose. Just like... That is nama-aparadha. Samah subha-kriya mati pramanah (?). He was trying to get some material profit by chanting the holy name of Rama. That he got, material profit. He was the most famous politician, all over the world.
Guest (1): But he did not accept any post, you know that? At the same time...,
Prabhupada: But he also accepted "Mahatma" although what...
Guest (1): But not political post.
Prabhupada: That is another trick, it may be. Or he did not like. It may be. Because he was so great, what is the presidency? Presidency elected post for five years. But he was recognized all over the world as a great leader. That is greater than any president's post or prime minister's post. So that is not much. But the thing is that if he was actually aware of the importance of Rama, that he did not. He took it, "Rama" as some means for his political purpose. But still it effected. At the time of death he said, "Rama." So...
Guest (1): So you think he has gone to heaven or some, what is his position?
Prabhupada: No... But because he did not understand Rama, therefore he cannot go to the kingdom of God. But he'll get very high position.
Guest (1): High position.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. He may go to the heavenly planet
Guest (1): Still in the material world.
Srutakirti: He said he's still in the material world. Heavenly planets is still the material world.
Prabhupada: Heaven is in the material world. Heaven is in the material world. You can get greater standard of life, greater duration of life, that's all. Higher standard of life. Just like Brahma. Brahma's one day you cannot calculate. He's so powerful, how he's created this universe. But he is in the material world. He's also a living entity like us, but very exalted. So he cannot get the post of Brahma. But he can get life in higher planetary system. That is certain. That is explained in the, find out that verse. That is explained in the...um. That verse, yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate sucinam srimatam gehe. But he did not understand Bhagavad-gita, that's a fact.
Guest (1): But what about this position of Valmiki or Ramayana?
Prabhupada: They went to the kingdom of God. They knew what is Rama.
Guest (1): They knew.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are not in vague understanding.
Guest (1): They wouldn't be able to write Ramayana if he didn't understand Lord Ramacandra?
Prabhupada: Yes. He had meditated for sixty thousands of years.
Guest (1): But I think it was Gandhi who said that Kuruksetra is this body, five Pandavas is the five senses and this is all interpretation concoction.
Prabhupada: (laughs) He did not understand, that's a fact. But even this child, he does not understand, but if he chants Hare Krsna, that will be effective. If he understands or not understand. It doesn't matter.
Guest (1): The name is so powerful.
Prabhupada: Yes. What is that?
Pradyumna: Prapya punya-krtam lokan.
Prabhupada: Ah, prapya punya-krtam lokan. This is the... So punya-krtam lokan means heavenly planet. Prapya punya-krtam lokan. You cannot go to the heavenly planet unless you are very pious. So he's promoted in heavenly planet where the duration of life is very long, standard of living is very nice. But there is no Krsna consciousness. What is that, prapya punya-krtam lokan?
Pradyumna: Usitva sasvatih samah.
Prabhupada: Usitva sasvatih samah. For a very long time. Because to get life in the heavenly planets means at least ten thousands of years. In their calculation. Their one day is equal to six months. In that way ten thousand years. Usitva sasvatih samah. What is it? Usitva sasvatih samah?
Pradyumna: Usitva sasvatih samah, sucinam srimatam gehe yoga-bhrasto 'bhijayate.
Prabhupada: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brahmana family, sucinam, or very rich, vaisya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Krsna conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Krsna gives His straight understanding, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti: You become Krsna conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhananda Sarasvati says, kaivalyam narakayate tridasa-pur akasa-puspayate. Tridasa-pur means the heavenly planets. Akasa, it is just like will of the wisp. Something, just like, what do you say Hindi? There are many proverbs, which has no existence. Just like in Bengali we say ghoda-dima. Ghoda-dima. Dima means egg. The horse never lays down egg. But the word is running on: "the egg of horse." So it has no existence but the word is there. Similarly, what do you say in Hindi? Something which has no existence but it is current. I think there is.
Guest (1): Hawaikila (?).
Prabhupada: Hawaikila, yes. Hawaikila means in the air there is a fort. It is something like, the Vaisnava considers the heavenly planets, that hawaikila. That's all.
Guest (1): This rich birth is important for self-realization?
Prabhupada: Next birth?
Devotees: Rich birth, to be born in a rich family.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. But there is facility. Because people are harassed for getting food and shelter. Everyone is working so hard where to get nice food, where to get nice shelter. Rich man means he has already got. So if he's sane, if he's good, has got good association, direction, then he can think, that "I have no anxiety for my food, shelter and other necessities of life. So how I shall utilize my time?" And if he gets good guru, then he can utilize very nicely, chanting Hare Krsna, Krsna consciousness. That is a chance. He hasn't got to work. Because people are very much perplexed how to get shelter, how to get food. But he has got the chance. He hasn't got to endeavor for food and shelter and other necessities of the body. Ample he has got. He can save time for spiritual advancement. That is an advantage. It is not necessary. It is almost disadvantage. But actually it is advantage. Unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they take advantage of it that "I have got so much money, let me enjoy sense gratification." Maya dictates, "Oh, you have got so much money. Utilize for wine-woman." That's all.
