then suggested that our policies are wrong;
claimed that we have no right to impose such restrictive policies;
demanded that we be 'fair and brahminical' and publish/debate his paper regardless of our policies;
demanded that we point out what contents in his paper do not meet the editorial policies; and
initially declined our invitation that instead, he point out anything at all in his paper that does qualify it per the editorial guidelines.
Finally, Hasti Gopala employed a unique tactic – he tried to suggest that we were not actually discussing having a debate about the contents of his paper (which is exactly what we were discussing), but rather that we were just 'having a little email debate'. He suggested that it was not that we were discussing the fact that the Sun would not publish his paper (which is exactly what we were discussing), and that he had never wanted to publish our 'little email debate', so the editorial guidelines didn't apply. He wrote:
"This little debate between us was not for Sampradaya Sun to publish...I told you that. It therefore does not fall under editorial policy controls...I told you that. You have failed to answer the question below."
In fact, he had not made these statements previously ("I told you that"), and if he had, they would have been completely nonsensical. He used this dishonest ploy to try and get around the fact that all along, we had been insisting that he meet the editorial guidelines with his article. It now appears that he was busy entangling us in his 'unofficial little email debate' so that he could later exploit it – which is exactly what he's trying to do today, by piecing together convenient excerpts and editorializing between the lines, publishing the skewed results in the Rtvik forums.
The exchange with Hasti Gopala eventually degenerated to the ever-popular Rtvik tactic of attacking our personal character. The latter, of course, he did not send to us directly, but published in a Rtvik forum.
One of the reasons we started the Sampradaya Sun in the first place, besides wishing to have a forum in which we could assert our own philosophical positions, was to get the benefit of an historical archive of articles and postings. Such a digital archive, we hoped, would liberate us from having to say the same things over and over and over to each individual challenger. We could simply point to the legacy articles and invite devotees who wished to argue issues to first review our past statements. Unfortunately, very few Rtvik challengers have been willing to make that effort, including Hasti Gopala. Instead, they demand that we debate anew… make a fresh start on chewing the chewed with them, personally. Otherwise, they say, we will be great offenders to Srila Prabhupada and "the philosophy".
Of all the issues we have dealt with over the six years of publishing the Sampradaya Sun, and the sixteen years of publishing the Sun's home site, HareKrsna.com, the Rtvik debate has been the single most frustrating and disheartening of all discussions. While most of the GBC and ISKCON leaders have finally figured out that we are not Rtviks, and have stopped labeling anything we write that's critical of them as being mere "blasphemies of Rtviks", there are still a few uninformed leaders who insist we're a Rtvik site.
On the other side of the ledger, the vast majority of exchanges we've had over the years with our Rtvik godbrothers and sisters have been riddled with misapplication of the philosophy, intellectual cheating, scholastic laziness, factual misstatements, an absence of logic, dishonorable debate tactics, absence of loyalty to friend and devotee, lying, cheating, and some of the worst personal attacks we've experienced. Frankly, it has disgusted us.
While we had precious little time to waste on the exercise, we did engage in a fairly lengthy email discussion with Hasti Gopala dasa on his latest Rtvik propaganda effort. By the end of it, the dialogue had degenerated to this, a posting he made on a Rtvik forum:
"Do they actually give a God Dam about anyone else other than their precious web site? while they publish unconfirmed sources???
That they have permitted Madhu Pundit Prabhu to defend ISKCON Bangalore means they should permit Srila Prabhupada's other disciples to defend him!!!!!!!! from their positions.!"
To which we replied:
"I was more than disappointed to read your rant comments in the Prabhupadanugas Forum today. With these comments, you've sunk down to the low level of so many Rtviks we know. We've been fair and civil with you, even though our editorial policies don't suit you and you want to argue about that fact. We've still tried to be respectful while we're disagreeing. But like so many of your Rtvik associates, when you don't get your way, you revert to personal attack and character assassination.
Please don't submit to us anymore. We're no longer willing to deal with you."
So for the record, Hasti Gopala dasa is no longer welcome to submit to the Sun -- not because we reject all Rtvik commentary, but because he has postured at ignorance of our editorial policy on Rtvik submissions when he knows full well what it is; because he has been disingenuous and dishonest in his dealings with us; because after wasting so much of our time with needless arguing, when he finally complied with the request that he point out the one new realization, argument or piece of evidence that would qualify his pro-Rtvik piece for submission, it turned out to be nothing new at all; and finally, because instead of accepting the reality that we just won't publish or debate his article, he insults our service to Srila Prabhupada. In a classic display of "Rtvik character", Hasti Gopala has just published on various Rtvik forums a cut-and-paste presentation of our personal email exchanges with him on this subject -- biased, of course, in his direction. For that reason, we've offered our own side of the story.
As noted above, just before de-railing the discussion, Hasti Gopala dasa did respond to our challenge that he point out the one new realization, argument or piece of evidence contained in his paper that would actually qualify for publication in the Sun what is otherwise nothing but a Rtvik propaganda piece. This is what he came up with:
"My single realization, my challenge from my article:
So they accept that the order was given, that ritvik representatives of
the acharya were appointed as such. Now if we ask them to supply proof of
a timeline for the July 9th 1977 directive using sadhu, sastra guru they
cannot and do not answer the request for the benefit of those whom they
care to represent, like their readers and other associates. They in affect
hide behind silence…isn't that like the Ostrich? Yes, it is."
Again, for the record: The challenge that Hasti Gopala dasa makes above is NOT NEW. It has, for many years now, been one of the fundamental arguments the Rtviks have made. This "realization" hinges entirely on the word, "henceforward". Whole papers have been written rebutting this single-word argument. I have personally given rebuttals to this specific aspect of the July 9th Letter. Hasti Gopala chooses to ignore this, which we find to be intellectually dishonest. (And for those who have forgotten it, the word "rtvik" does not even appear in the July 9th Letter. What the Letter says is: "…senior disciples to act as "rittik" – representative of the acarya".)
As we've told Hasti Gopala dasa, we will not spend the time to yet again rebut the basic tenets of Rtvik-vada – and particularly not in the context of his new paper, which is a relatively weak presentation of the subject matter. Over recent years, I have invited two of the Rtvik pandits to debate: Yasodanandana dasa, who dishonorably declined, and Mahesh Raja, who said he would debate, but then disappeared from view. We've scratched both names off our list of challengers.
Perhaps one day, when the dust settles from all his legal battles, Madhu Pandit dasa will engage us in a public debate on Rtvik-vada. In the meantime, we continue to invite Rtvik adherents to share any new evidence, new arguments or new realizations that support their conclusions on guru-tattva. But please don't submit to the Sun Rtvik propaganda articles that simply repeat what has already been said. They will not be published.
