Krishnabhishek and Basu Ghosh: Apologists or Brahma-bhuta Souls?
BY: ACHYUTA DASA
Jun 19, CANADA (SUN) — It is interesting how Krishnabhishek das chose the Sampradaya Sun and Chakra as opposed to Dandavats to publish his views on the issue of Tamal Krishna Goswami (TKG) and his JBD perspective on Krishna Consciousness and Srila Prabhupada. I suppose Dandavats is the mainstream ISKCON propaganda machine and will not allow this issue any airtime, whereas Chakra is the more open ISKCON website which attempts to give the impression that ISKCON gives a damn. It is also interesting why Chakra is allowing this issue to have any airtime at all. Dandavats = Pragosh / Chakra = Madhusundana Radha, both guardians of the ISKCON (FISKCON) party-liner’s. I wonder if Chakra will publish my articles? But who cares for Chakra or Dandavats anyway.
The Sampradaya Sun is the only website that truly represents the truth and our realizations. Thank God and Srila Prabhupada for Rocana prabhu! Getting back to Krishnabhishek das…
It is quite possible that this is the very same Krishnabhisek das who published a letter on Chakra three years ago wherein he said:
“Though pure devotees of Krishna sometimes can use charisma to attract conditioned souls, charisma shouldn't be taken into account as a criterion to judge a prospective guru. Doing so can lead to the devotee feeling unenthusiastic, worn out or 'disillusioned' in the long run, as soon as one gets over the initial attraction.”
Posted on Chakra, August 9 2006 by Krishnabhishek das (TKG disciple)
If this is the same Krishnabhishek das that posted this comment on Chakra in '06, his opinion of a charismatic person has changed! Now some three years later he is saying that charisma is an accurate term for applying to a Spiritual Master of Srila Prabhupada's status. He quotes Max Weber, making the inference that modern academia uses this term to describe someone of superhuman or supernatural qualities. Yet he does not say the full meaning, which I also cut and pasted from Wikipedia:
“The word charisma (Greek "kharisma," meaning "gift," "of/from/favored by God/the divine") refers to a trait found in persons with a facile personality, characterized by personal charm and magnetism (attractiveness), along with innate and powerfully sophisticated abilities of interpersonal communication and persuasion. One who is charismatic is said to be capable of using their personal being, rather than just speech or logic alone, to interface with other human beings in a personal and direct manner, and effectively communicate an argument or concept to them.”
Srila Prabhupada was not simply a person who had a ‘facile’ personality characterized by personal charm and magnetism, no matter how supernatural or superhuman they may be! To refer to Srila Prabhupada as a “charismatic leader” is insulting, not only for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna but also it is an insult to our intelligence. What to speak of Krishnabhishek das’s indecisiveness. Make up your mind!
If Krishnabhishek das is assisting Garuda prabhu (JBD) to review a thesis that Professor Julius Lipner (Jewish background non-devotee) ‘helped prepare’, then we are certainly going to get a sanitized Doctoral Thesis. I’d love to see the un-sanitized version of TKG’s Thesis, just like I’d like to be able to obtain original versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books, as opposed to the sanitized BBTi versions. Dr. Lipner claims that TKG submitted the final chapter of his Thesis just before he left for India. This means that he has had the full work submitted to him. So what is the need for anyone to review or edit it? It should be published ‘as it is’. If TKG is a pure devotee, then how is it possible for a disciple or a non-devotee to change his written word?
The other point in this TKG minion’s letter in support of his guru, Tamal Krishna, that insult’s our intelligence is that he challenges us to explain our philosophy in terms that the stupid Academics can understand.
What Krishnabhishek das is asking us to do, Srila Prabhupada has already done. Srila Prabhupada is the only preacher in ISKCON. We give the non-devotees Srila Prabhupada’s books and they read them and Srila Prabhupada does the rest. We don’t have to change to accommodate them; they must try and understand us. Let them use their so-called superior intellect and academic approach to Theology and see how they fare with Srila Prabhupada’s books.
Tamal Krishna believes that he has the right to interpret our Vaisnava Shastra as he sees fit, as if he is greater than Srila Prabhupada. Does this ‘ring a bell’ prabhu?
“But when the guru departs, sadhu and sastra can take on a new import, as those who succeed him become the new interpreters of past precedents, scriptural law and the new set of circumstances.”
(A Hare Krishna at Southern Methodist University, Page 297)
The modern academics with their Diacritical Theology, which is only a disguise for their impersonalist agenda, is only being made relevant by sold out JBD traitors such as Tamala Krishna, Krishna Kshetra, Garuda and Hrydayananda. They have sold out to professionalism and interfaith.
Our philosophy needs no champion other than Srila Prabhupada. Let any Academic prove that their so-called critical analytical interpretations of our philosophy can prove us false. Let them make a diacritical study of our Shastra instead of our so-called Academics trying to pass Srila Prabhupada off as if he is a cheap charlatan, like they are!
Krishnabhishek das, it would be advantageous for you to critically analyze TKG with a rationally unbiased analytical mind, and perhaps you can start by looking at:
a) His cultural background and how that impacted on his devotional career
b) How he related to other devotees, taking into consideration all views and opinions of him, good or bad
c) The philosophical deviations that he stood for
d) An estimate of how much of Srila Prabhupada’s money he spent obtaining formal qualifications, knowing full well that Srila Prabhupada did not want his Sannyasi disciples going to mundane university
e) His published work and how it relates to the points being raised regarding his interpretation of Srila Prabhupada and our Vaisnava Siddhanta
f) Most importantly, how he died - please provide sastric references
The thing is, Krishnabhishek prabhu, you have no idea what these Diacritical Theologians represent, do you? You think that they are ‘big big’ important people who are ‘big big’ scholars and should be respected and treated with awe and reverence, don’t you? Admit it. But this so-called Academia that you firmly believe we must bend our knees and crawl to, is representing the Humanistic and Agnostic approach that determines that God is ultimately unknowable. That Srila Prabhupada's theory that Godhead is knowable is naďve.
Push your lecturers and see where they stand. It will be the very same thing as the Judaic belief that Godhead is unknowable. The so-called Academic language, terminology and ideologies that you so eagerly want to embrace and use in your refutations and ultimately self-aggrandizement are all coming from the impersonal humanistic sciences.
We are aspiring Vaisnava’s and that means these rational mechanistic scientists have no idea what and who we are and most importantly, what and who Srila Prabhupada is. Srila Prabhupada is nothing whatsoever like TKG or the Academics you admire. This caliber of soul rarely walks this earth and when he does, he does it for Krishna, not the impersonalist pseudo-philosophers you are so attached to. That includes TKG!
One final point is that you keep mentioning vaishnave jati buddhi like we don’t understand the term. Maybe you need to try and work out what a Vaisnava is before you apply that concept in this discussion. The paper that TKG and Krishna Kshetra are co-writing does not prove that they are Vaisnavas in our tradition. Just because a person dresses in the garb of a Vaisnava does not automatically infer that they are, in fact, a Vaisnava. You must remember that being a Vaisnava is not such an easy thing. We are all aspiring Vaisnavas and must be very, very careful when inferring anything about a pure devotee such as Srila Prabhupada, our Sampradaya Acarya.
So make up your mind on where your loyalties lie, and then speak.
As I write this I see that the Sampradaya Sun has updated. This letter may take longer than I anticipated…
BASU GOSH ENTERS THE DISCUSSION
I see the ‘outfield apologist’ Basu Gosh das has provided his two paisa worth opinion.
I believe you will find that it is Jewish ‘Background’ Devotee not Jewish ‘Bodied’ Devotee. Like to change things, do ya prabhu…? You really need to have your facts correct before you try and work out what is actually happening with regards to this discussion. The point is background, not body.
Body is one thing, but karmic traits and samskar is another. It is what a person identifies with that is important prabhu, not what the color of his or her body is or where they were born. These are not the issues being discussed, so please don’t muddy the waters with illogical interjections. This is about karma, guna and samskar, and the subsequent identification with them rather than the higher transcendental identification.
The other issue is a spin off of this, where it is posited that if these JBD’s are in actual fact identifying with their karma, guna and samskar, that this could be for two possible reasons.
One: after offences or weakness and falling back into their past karma, guna and samskar, they can no longer properly discriminate what is right and what is wrong according to the premises set down by Srila Prabhupada.
Two: since some of these leaders know full well the falsity of their methodologies and philosophical positioning, they can only maintain their errant ways if they have an ulterior motive for doing so. One conclusion that may be drawn from this is that they may not be devotees, but infiltrators, who have entered into ISKCON with some hidden agenda.
These are the main issues affecting the movement at this moment in time and the ones that need to be addressed.
Come on Basu Gosh, re-read your article and see the obvious flaw. You are not free of your bodily conception, yet you quote Srila Prabhupada with wild abandon as if you are. Change the record please. Put another dime in the jukebox!
Stop avoiding the issue with the ‘smoke and mirrors’ Las Vegas Magician routine. Work from the position that you are under the modes as well, and are being pushed into the discussion because you are responding from your JBD perspective, and not your devotee perspective. Or maybe you have been requested by ‘the powers that be’ to begin diversionary tactics or the Jewish apologists to defend their honor.
The devotee side of you will have to admit that there is a distinct possibility that Mukunda and Ms. Sullivan have a valid point that needs to be discussed maturely. So discuss it maturely and stop stereotyping them as bigots or racists, or this or that. We are all on the bodily platform prabhu. Accept it first, then try and understand our point.
No one has said or is saying that all JBD’s are corrupt. The main point is the disproportionate number of JBD’s in leadership positions that are corrupting Srila Prabhupada’s movement with modernity, liberalism, pluralism, etc.
Statements are being made that need to be addressed in a mature and rational manner. You are introducing the term ‘stereotyping’, which is really the same old same old ‘bigot’ or ‘bodily conception’. We are not that stupid prabhu, to not know what you are doing. Please give us some credit.
Use your God given talents to:
a) Prove that JBD’s do not represent the majority of our leadership: Gurus / Sannyasis and GBC
b) Prove that JBD’s are not behind the push by our leaders to modernize, liberalize and pluralize our movement
c) Prove that JBD’s are not behind the ‘Interfaith’ process in ISKCON
d) Prove that the familial background of the JBD’s in these leadership positions is not a major contributing factor
e) Prove that it is appropriate for our movement to keep up with modernity
f) Prove that our leadership (yourself included) is above the modes of material nature
g) Prove that JBD’s are not the main ones behind the push for acceptance by Academia
h) Prove that JBD’s are not the main ones not only seeking academic qualification, but also the push behind our devotees, both child and adult, to obtain western secular qualifications
i) Prove that JBD’s are not behind the corporatization of our movement
j) Prove that they do not control the finances of ISKCON and ISKCON Bank accounts
k) Prove that they are not in the majority of all legal documents regarding the proprietorship of ISKCON
l) Prove that JBD’s are not behind all the legal actions in our movement
m) Prove that JBD’s do not have controlling interest in all our Ministerial Departments
n) Prove that JBD’s are do not have controlling interest in all our Public Relations, Communications and Media
o) Prove that JBD’s do not have controlling interest in the BBT and BBTi
p) Prove that JBD’s were not behind every single one of the philosophical deviations that have infected our movement - for a start…
Even though the JBD’s are in power, they do not represent the bulk of the devotees of ISKCON who are entitled to know the truth about all of the above. If you can prove that these above points are not true, you still cannot claim that Mukunda, Ms. Sullivan and I are stereotyping racist bigots who are Anti-Semitic for (and I cannot speak for them) wanting the discussion to come out from behind closed doors and into the open.
If a person’s Jewish background has no bearing on their observable practice of Krishna Consciousness then let this be proven. The situation as it stands in our movement today is that the one common denominator in all the above points is the JBD. Thus to not see relevance is unintelligent and illogical. I think you have to agree with that. Until devotees like you stop avoiding the real issues, how will it be resolved?
Do you seriously think that all the devotees who have these thoughts and opinions are simply going to say…
“Oh my God Basu Gosh is right! There is no problem at all!
We are guilty of stereotyping the leadership who are JBD’s!
Oh thank you, prabhu thank you. And by the way, where can I enroll in a University to learn all about being a nice Diacritical Theologian so I too can heap dog stool on our philosophy and Srila Prabhupada like TKG did?”
"According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in such a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth."
~ Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. Ch 10:4
This is one of the tenets of the Sampradaya Sun website and we deserve the truth, no matter if it offends your JBD sensibilities.
Prabhu if you are going to enter into this discussion, how about speaking the truth first?
Achyuta dasa
