Soul's Origin: Crow And Tal-Fruit Logic
BY: MAHESH RAJA
Jan 25, UK (SUN) — We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream, he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position.
Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna, desire for sense gratification is there. There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.
We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become the Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed.
So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, emerging into the Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as demons. This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss. Just like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. So even Lord Brahma, he is still material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position.
So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only up to Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.
BECAUSE HE FALLS DOWN FROM BRAHMASAYUJYA, HE THINKS THAT MAYBE HIS ORIGIN, BUT HE DOES NOT REMEMBER THAT BEFORE THAT EVEN HE WAS WITH KRSNA. So the conclusion is that whatever may be our past, let us come to Krsna consciousness and immediately join Krsna. Just like with a diseased man, it is a waste of time to try to find out how he has become diseased, better to spend time curing the disease.
On the top of the tree there is a nice tal-fruit. A crow went there and the fruit fell down, Some panditas, big, big learned scholars, saw this and discussed: the fruit fell due to the crow agitating the limb. No, the fruit fell simultaneously with the crow landing and frightened the crow so he flew away. No, the fruit was ripe and the weight of the crow landing broke it from the branch, and so on and so on. What is the use of such discussions? So whether you were in the Brahmasayujya or with Krsna in His lila, at the moment you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krsna consciousness and go there, never mind what is your origin.
Brahmasayujya and Krsna lila--both may be possible, but when you are coming down from Brahmasayujya or when you are coming down from Krsna lila, that remains a mystery. But at the present moment we are in Maya's clutches, so at present our only hope is to become Krsna conscious and go back to Home, back to Godhead. The real position is servant of Krsna, and servant of Krsna means in Krsna lila. Directly or indirectly, always we are serving Krsna's lila. Even in dream. Just like we cannot go out of the sun when it is daytime, so where is the chance of going out of Krsna lila? The cloud may be there, it may become very gray and dim, but still the sunlight is there, everywhere, during the daytime. Because I am part and parcel of Krsna, I am always connected. My finger, even though it may be diseased, remains part and parcel of my body. Therefore, we try to treat it, cure it, because it is part and parcel. So Krsna comes Himself when we forget Him, or He sends His representative.
Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna. Cause and effect are both Krsna. Just like cotton becomes thread and thread becomes cloth, still, the original cause is cotton. Therefore, everything is Krsna in the ultimate sense. When we cannot contact Krsna personally, we contact His energies. So there is no chance to be outside Krsna's lila. But differences we see under different conditions. Just like in the pool of water and in the mirror the same me is reflecting, but in different reflections. One is shimmering, unsteady, one is clear and fixed. Except for being in Krsna consciousness, we cannot see our actual position rightly, therefore the learned man sees all living entities as the same parts and parcels of Krsna. Material existence is impersonal because my real personality is covered. But we should think that because I am now covered by this clay, I am diseased, and we should think that I must get to business to get myself uncovered, not wonder how I got this way. Now the fruit is there, take it and enjoy, that is your first business. God is not bound by cause. He can change, He is the Cause of all Causes. Now don't waste your time with this "Kaka taliya nyaya," crows and tal-fruit logic.
760708ed.wdc -- Conversations:
Prabhupada: "Whatever it may be, the falldown is there. So because we are
living entities, we are not as powerful as Krsna, THEREFORE WE MAY FALL DOWN
FROM VAIKUNTHA AT ANY MOMENT. ICCHA-DVESA SAMUTTHENA SARGE YANTI PARANTAPA. FIND OUT THIS VERSE.
Pusta Krsna:
iccha-dvesa samutthena
dvandva-mohena bharata
sarva-bhutani sammoham
sarge yanti parantapa
"O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities
are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate."
Prabhupada: Purport.
Pusta Krsna: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that
of subordination to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is
deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by
illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to
desire and hate the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme
Lord and envies Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees,
who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand
that Lord Sri Krsna appears by His internal potencies. But those who are
deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of
Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such
deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor,
misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc.,
thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house,
I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those
who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand
the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Prabhupada: So even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve
Krsna? Why not become Krsna?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A
servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could
become the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become
God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's
wrongly thinking.
Vipina: Why doesn't Krsna protect us from that desire?
Prabhupada: He's protecting. He says, "You rascal, don't desire, surrender
unto Me." But you are rascal, you do not do this.
Vipina: Why doesn't He save me from thinking like that?
Prabhupada: That means you lose your independence.
Vipina: And no love.
Prabhupada: That is force. (indistinct) prema. In Bengali it is said "If you
catch one girl or boy, 'You love me, you love me, you love me.' " Is it
love? (laughter) "You love me, otherwise I will kill you." (laughter) Is
that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point
of revolver, "You love me, otherwise I shall kill you." That is not love,
that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of
feeling, then there is love, not by force. That is rape. The... Why one is
called lover, another is called rape?"
69-07-24 -- Letter: Rupanuga
"Regarding your question, "what is the difference between the spirit souls
comprising the Brahmajyoti and the spirit souls here in Maya?", in the
Brahmajyoti the spirit souls on account of their impersonal views are devoid
of a body, exactly like here in Maya there are ghosts who are devoid of any
gross bodies. The ghost being devoid of a body, he suffers terribly because
he is unable to satisfy his senses. The spirit souls in the Brahmajyoti,
although they have no desire for sense gratification, still they feel
inconvenience like the ghost, and they fall down again in the Maya's
atmosphere and develop a material body. In the Bhagavat therefore it is said
that persons who are impersonalists and do not develop the dormant
devotional attitude, their intelligence is not pure, because for want of a
spiritual body, they come down again to the material world. In the
Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said by the lord that the only way of not coming
back to the material world is to be promoted to the spiritual planets. for
the impersonalists there is no such assurance of not falling down in the
whole vedic literature. The conclusion is that without developing the
spiritual body and without being situated on one of the spiritual planets,
the so-called liberation is also illusion, or it is not complete. A SPIRIT
SOUL WHO FALLS DOWN FROM THE BRAHMAJYOTI TO THE KINGDOM OF MAYA MAY HAVE A
CHANCE OF ASSOCIATING WITH A PURE DEVOTEE, AND THEN HE MAY BE ELEVATED TO
THE SPIRITUAL PLANETS OF VAIKUNTHA OR TO GOLOKA VRINDABAN. FROM THE
BRAHMAJYOTI THERE IS NO DIRECT PROMOTION TO THE SPIRITUAL PLANETS, AND IT IS
CLEARLY STATED IN THE BHAGAVATAM THAT SUCH SOULS FALL DOWN: PATANTY ADHA.
70-02-27.Jag -- Letter: Jagadisa
"Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya's
influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship
with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. USUALLY ANYONE
WHO HAS DEVELOPED HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA DOES NOT FALL DOWN IN ANY
CIRCUMSTANCE, BUT BECAUSE THE INDEPENDENCE IS ALWAYS THERE, THE SOUL MAY
FALL DOWN FROM ANY POSITION OR ANY RELATIONSHIP BY MISUSING HIS
INDEPENDENCE. BUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA IS NEVER LOST, SIMPLY IT IS
FORGOTTEN BY THE INFLUENCE OF MAYA, SO IT MAY BE REGAINED OR REVIVED BY THE
PROCESS OF HEARING THE HOLY NAME OF KRSNA AND THEN THE DEVOTEE ENGAGES
HIMSELF IN THE SERVICE OF THE LORD WHICH IS HIS ORIGINAL OR CONSTITUTIONAL
POSITION. THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE LIVING ENTITY WITH KRSNA IS ETERNAL AS
BOTH KRSNA AND THE LIVING ENTITY ARE ETERNAL; THE PROCESS IS ONE OF REVIVAL
ONLY, NOTHING NEW."
70-04-25 -- Letter: Jagadisa
"Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned
souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord
Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? THE SOULS ARE ENDOWED WITH
MINUTE INDEPENDENCE AS PART OF THEIR NATURE AND THIS MINUTE INDEPENDENCE MAY
BE UTILIZED RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY AT ANY TIME, SO THERE IS ALWAYS THE CHANCE OF
FALLING DOWN BY MISUSE OF ONE'S INDEPENDENCE. BUT THOSE WHO ARE FIRMLY FIXED
UP IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO KRSNA ARE MAKING PROPER USE OF THEIR
INDEPENDENCE AND SO THEY DO NOT FALL DOWN."
67-08-27 -- Letter: Jananivasa
"The Spirit Soul is certainly eternal and changeless; and the fall is
superficial, just like the relation between father and son cannot be broken
ever. Now we are simply in a phase of forgetfulness, and this forgetfulness
is called Maya. There is a nice example in the waning of the moon. To use
the moon appears to be changing, but in fact the moon is always the same. So
as ETERNAL SERVITORS OF KRISHNA--OUR CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION--WE FALL DOWN WHEN WE TRY TO BECOME THE ENJOYER, IMITATING KRISHNA. That is our downfall.
Krishna is the Supreme Enjoyer, and we are constitutionally to be enjoyed by
Him, and when we revive this constitutional position where is no more Maya.
K.C. gives us the opportunity of rendering service to Krishna, and this
service attitude only can replace us on our original position. Please
therefore, continue to chant faithfully, and Krishna will reveal Himself, by
His Causeless Mercy, and you will know everything automatically. I shall, of
course always be ready and anxious to answer any question you have."
69-06-07 -- Letter: Uttamasloka
"Please accept my blessings. I am very glad to receive your letter (undated), and I have noted the contents that you had left the temple but now you have returned again. This is most encouraging, because it means that Krishna is very kind upon you. Although you left Him, He did not allow you to go away. It is His special favor upon you. As individuals there may be disagreement sometimes, but that is quite natural. Even in ordinary family affairs there is sometimes disagreement, but that does not mean immediately the disagreeing members shall leave the family. Similarly our Krishna Consciousness Movement means we are all gathering together in families of Krishna. ACTUALLY WE ARE ETERNAL FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE LORD, BUT DUE TO OUR MISUSE OF INDEPENDENCE WE HAVE NOW FORGOTTEN OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA, EXACTLY LIKE A MAN WHO IS MAD FORGETS HIS FAMILY RELATIONSHIP AND LOITERS IN THE STREET. But when he is again in his normal mental condition, he remembers his family members and goes back to them. Similarly this Krishna Consciousness Movement is a treatment for reviving the memory that we all belong to Krishna's family. So we are trying to establish a replica of Krishna's family in this material world wherein there is no material activities. To avoid the material activities means to follow the four regulative principles and to engage ourselves constantly in Krishna Consciousness activities and to have the association of pure devotees. We should not give indulgence to our senses more than what is required just to keep body and soul together. We should not engage ourselves in very difficult tasks, and we should not talk anything more than what is necessary for spreading Krishna Consciousness. We should follow the regulative principles, regard being had to situation, circumstances and objectives. We should not be greedy and we should not mix with persons not interested in Krishna. In this way, we can make steady progress and maintain our membership in Krishna's family. Thus, at the end of this life we will enter actually into the spiritual world. So your main business should be to spread Sankirtana, becoming tolerant as the tree and becoming humbler than the grass. If you have anytime any difficulty, please try to settle up in the above way, but do not leave the company of devotees. That will not help you, even though there may seem to be some difficulties."
740606BG.GEN Lectures
"Just like father gives some capital to the son: "You do some business." Now, you lose the money or increase it hundred times; that depends on you. Similarly, Krsna has given us. We wanted to enjoy this material world, and Krsna has given us. THE FIRST BEGINNING BODY IS BRAHMA, VERY EXALTED BODY. BUT ON ACCOUNT OF OUR ABOMINABLE ACTIVITIES, FROM BRAHMA, WE COME DOWN TO BECOME THE WORM OF STOOL. This is called karma, ksetra."
Bhagavad-Gita Introduction
"Arjuna was in a relationship with the Lord as friend. Of course there is a gulf of difference between this friendship and the friendship found in the material world. This is transcendental friendship which cannot be had by everyone. Of course everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, we have not only forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have FORGOTTEN OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP with the Lord. Every living being, out of many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called SVARUPA. By the process of devotional service, one can REVIVE THAT SVARUPA, and that stage is called svarupa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position. So Arjuna was a devotee, and he was in touch with the Supreme Lord in friendship."
Note: the Gaudiya Math’s Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Puri Maharaja, etc. cannot accept Srila Prabhupada, even when Srila Prabhupada has quoted Chaitanya Mahaprabhu:
KRSNERA 'NITYA-dasa': "Every living entity is CONSTITUTIONALLY an ETERNAL SERVANT of Krsna.
The soul was NITYA (eternally) serving Krsna KRSNERA 'NITYA-dasa in lila(sport) with Krsna: but they OPPOSE Srila Prabhupada by stating BRAHMAJYOTI is the actual origin of the soul. This shows Srila Prabhupada is REALIZED Mahabhagavata whereas Gaudiya matha camp is a bunch of mental speculators.
SB 4.29.36-37 P -- Talks Between Narada and King Pracinabarhi
"Bhakti refers to those activities performed in the service of Lord Vasudeva. Because Lord Vasudeva is the Supreme, one should engage oneself in His service, not in the service of the demigods. Devotional service begins from the neophyte stage--the stage of observing the rules and regulations--and extends to the point of spontaneous loving service to the Lord. The purpose of all stages is to satisfy Lord Vasudeva. When one is perfectly advanced in the devotional service of Vasudeva, one becomes completely detached from the service of the body, that is, his designated position in material existence. After becoming so detached, one becomes actually perfect in knowledge and engages perfectly in the service of Lord Vasudeva. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, JIVERA 'SVARUPA' HAYA--KRSNERA 'NITYA-DASA': "Every living entity is BY CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION AN ETERNAL SERVANT OF KRSNA." As soon as one engages in the service of Lord Vasudeva, he attains his normal constitutional position. This position is called the liberated stage. Muktir hitvanyatha-rupam svarupena vyavasthitih: in the liberated stage, one is situated in his original Krsna conscious position. He gives up all engagements in the service of matter, engagements concocted under the names of social service, national service, community service, dog service, automobile service and so many other services conducted under the illusion of "I" and mine."
