Dec 31, 2016 — CANADA (SUN) — Conversations wtih HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, excerpted from Dialectical Spiritualism: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.
III - SCHOLASTICISM
John Duns Scotus (1265 - 1308)
Hayagriva dasa: Scotus affirmed that it was the Church's unfailing authority that provided the criterion of truth. Church dogma was sacred,
and philosophy was naturally subordinate to it. Revelation was behind
all Church dogma, and therefore sacred dogma is not open for debate.
Srila Prabhupada: If by "church" we mean an institution wherein we
can learn about God, then philosophy is certainly subordinate. In such
a Church, we can learn what God Himself is, what He is willing, and
how He is acting. We may learn this either from the Bible or another
scripture. However, if the Church is polluted by imperfect interpretation,
and there are different factions, the truth is lost. At such a time, the
authority of Christ is no longer imparted. People become free to think
and act as they like, and thus God's kingdom is lost.
Hayagriva dasa: Because the parampara is broken?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. The Church is the supreme authority provided
that it maintains itself in exactly the same way and does not deviate from
its beginning. As soon as we interpret and divide, the message is lost.
Hayagriva dasa: The Protestants claimed that the parampara of the Catholic Church was broken, therefore they broke from Catholicism and
fragmented into many different sects.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, they condemned the Catholic Church because
its parampara was broken, but they concluded, "Let us also break."
Those who first broke away from the message as it is and those who
followed them by breaking away themselves are both to blame. Since the
original solidarity of the Christian religion is broken, the Christian religion is dwindling and losing its importance.
Hayagriva dasa: For Scotus, apart from being a human being, each
individual is also a specific personality. The individual is the ultimate
reality because prior to existence he existed in essence in the mind of God.
Srila Prabhupada: The real fact is that the living entity is eternal, and
the material world is created to satisfy his false existence, which is called
false ego (ahahkara). The individual is thinking that he is independent
and can act independent of God. That is the beginning of paradise lost,
of Adam's fall. When Adam and Eve thought that they could do something independently, they were condemned. Every living entity is the eternal servant of God, and he must act according to the desire or will
of the Supreme Lord. When he deviates from this principle, he is lost.
Losing paradise, he comes into the material world, and God gives him
certain facilities to act, but says, "If you act according to this system,
you can come back to Me. If you do not follow this system, you go down
and down. " That is the process of transmigration, the rotation of the cycle
of birth and death. This is all due to disobeying God. When the living
entity hears the instructions of the Supreme Lord, he again revives his
original constitutional position and returns home, back to Godhead.
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam Saranam vraja
aharh tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah
"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall
deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear." (Bg. 18.66)
Hayagriva dasa: Aquinas believed that the angels — what the Vedas might
call devas — have pure spiritual forms, but Scotus argues that only God
Himself has a purely spiritual form since only God is perfect essence.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, since God exists in His spiritual form, He never
falls down; therefore He is sometimes called Acyuta. When a person
falls from his original, spiritual position, he is cyuta, fallen. God, however, is Acyuta because He is not subject to falling down.
Hayagriva dasa: Scotus rejects the method of negation, the neti-neti process, as being of no particular value. Knowledge of God must be
positive, and negative concepts only presuppose a positive concept.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, the neti-neti process is for those who are still
speculating. This is an indirect process by which one negates everything
material. Positive understanding means taking direct knowledge from
God Himself.
mattah parataram nanyat
kificid asti dhananjaya
mayi sarvam idam protam
sutre mani-gana iva
"0 conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread." (Bg. 7. 7) If we accept
the words of God, we save ourselves much labor. We cannot understand
God by speculation, but still we are inclined to speculate. But knowing God
perfectly is knowing God beyond a doubt. Krsna tells Arjuna:
mayy asakta-manah, partha
yogam yuhjan mad-asrayah
asamsayam samagram mam
yatha jhasyasi tac chrnu
"Now hear, 0 son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt." {Bg. 7.1) The word asamsayam means "without a doubt," and
samagram means "complete." Following Krsna and trying to understand
Him is called bhakti-yoga, and such yoga is possible for one who is
actually attached to Krsna. Therefore our first business is learning how
to be attached to Krsna {mayy asakta-manah, partha). There are nine
different aspects of bhakti-yoga: sravanarh kirtanam visnoh smaranam,
etc. Of these, sravanam (hearing), and kirtanam (chanting), are most
important. Then there is remembering, worshipping in the temple according to the regulations, rising early in the morning, offering aratrika,
and so forth. This is the process of bhakti-yoga meant to increase our
devotion for Krsna. When attachment increases, we become very obedient and always engage devotedly in His service. When Krsna sees that
we are obeying Him, He reveals Himself.
tesarh satata-yuktanam
bhajatam priti-puj-vakam
dadami buddhi-yogam tarn
yena mam upayanti te
"To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me." (Bg. 10.10) These
are the words of Sri Krsna speaking directly to Arjuna, and we take this
to be a perfect statement. What is the purport I give to this in Bhagavad-glta As It Is?
Hayagriva dasa [reading]: "In this verse the word buddhi-yogam is very
significant. We may remember that in the Second Chapter, the Lord,
instructing Arjuna, said that He had spoken to him of many things, and
that He would instruct him in the way of buddhi-yoga. Now buddhi-yoga
is explained. Buddhi-yoga itself is action in Krsna consciousness; that
is the highest intelligence. Buddhi means intelligence, and yogam
means mystic activities, or mystic elevation. When one tries to go back
home, back to Godhead, and takes fully to Krsna consciousness in devotional service, his action is called buddhi-yogam. In other words, buddhi-yogam is the process by which one gets out of the entanglement of this
material world. The ultimate goal of progress is Krsna. People do not
know this; therefore the association of devotees and a bona fide spiritual
master is important. One should know that the goal is Krsna, and when
the goal is assigned, then the path is slowly but progressively traversed
and the ultimate goal reached.
"When a person knows the goal of life but is addicted to the fruits of
activities, he is acting in karma-yoga. When he knows that the goal is
Krsna, but he takes pleasure in mental speculations to understand
Krsna, he is acting in jhana-yoga. And when he knows the goal and
seeks Krsna completely in Krsna consciousness and devotional service,
he is acting in bhakti-yoga, or buddhi-yoga, which is the complete yoga.
This complete yoga is the highest perfectional stage of life.
"A person may have a bona fide spiritual master and may be attached
to a spiritual organization, but still, if he is not intelligent enough to
make progress, then Krsna from within gives him instructions so that he
may ultimately come to Him without difficulty. The qualification is that
a person always engage himself in Krsna consciousness and with love
and devotion render all kinds of services. He should perform some sort
of work for Krsna, and that work should be with love. If a devotee is
intelligent enough, he will make progress on the path of self-realization.
If one is sincere and devoted to the activities of devotional service, the
Lord gives him a chance to make progress and ultimately attain to Him. "
Srila Prabhupada: So this is the process in summary.
Hayagriva dasa: Scotus argued for the existence of God on the basis of
primary cause, but he felt that the proposition "God exists" is not of much
use unless we understand what God is and know something of His nature.
Srila Prabhupada: God is the Supreme Father, and He has created everything within our experience. When we are convinced that there is
certainly a creator, we can make further progress to understand the nature of that creator. Is He animate or inanimate? Is He matter, or a living
being? Further analysis takes up from this point, but first we must understand that God is the creator. That is very well explained in Bhagavad-gita:
sarva-yonisu kaunteya
murtayah sambhavanti yah,
tasam brahma mahad yonir
aham blja-pradah pita
"It should be understood that all species of life, 0 son of Kunti, are made
possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving
father. " (Bg. 14.4) Everything is coming from the womb (yoni) of material
nature. If the earth or material nature is the mother, there must be a
father. Of course, atheists think that a mother can give birth without a
father, but that thinking is most unnatural. One next asks, "Who is my
father? What is his position? How does he talk? How does he live?" First
we must understand that there is a creator father, and then we can understand His nature. This understanding must be beyond a doubt (asarhsayam).
Hayagriva dasa: Scotus was also opposed to Aquinas in his belief that
the human soul can be separated from the body, and when it is separated,
it is not changed at all. When the soul is united with the body, it activates
the body, but the soul itself is beyond corruption. The individual soul is
incapable of destroying itself or giving itself being.
Srila Prabhupada: The individual soul is always separate from the body.
That is the Vedic injunction: asahgo hyayampurusa iti (Brhad aranyak-
opanisat 4.3.16). If the body actually mixed with the soul, how could
the soul give up one body and accept another? The soul is always aloof
from the body, from its material formation. The living entity, the jiva-
soul, is always asahga, incorruptible.
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
