Moaning and Groaning
BY: SUN EDITORS
Nov 09, 2011 — CANADA (SUN) — We've had a number of email responses to the recent twin postings on the Great Rtvik Debate, exchanged between George Smith and ourselves. Some replies have come from Rtvik devotees who are complaining about the fact that we won't let them post on the Sun any longer. Others were general messages of support for Rtvik-vada, but didn't touch on anything that was actually said in the recent articles. We heard from Janmastami das today, whose "Rtvik-centric complaint emanates out to broader coverage. We heard from another prabhu who reminded us that he has been patiently awaiting our definitive position on the May 28th Conversation, and we were happy to let him know that we've now completed an extensive analysis and commentary on that key piece of evidence in the Rtvik debate, and are inching closer to completing and publishing our comprehensive rebuttal of Rtvik-vada and 'The Final Order'. We appreciate the patience of our Sun readers as we continue to reprise some of our older Feature serials while focusing our energy on that project.
We made the point in our recent article, "A Speculative Kick at the Can", that after the six-part series, "A Word and a Staple", we have heard nothing back from the Rtvik camp. None of them challenged any of the points we made, what to speak of actually offering solid refutations. Granted, there was a marked increase in "Sun bashing" in a few of the Rtvik/Prabhupadanugas forums, but that was mostly character assassination fluff… nothing of substance on the siddhanta side.
The current trend, which is demonstrated today in Janmastami's article, "Reply to Mr. Smith", is that the Rtviks are now essentially taking shelter of the Sun editorial policies they usually bristle at. Over the long periods when little fresh commentary was being offered in the Great Rtvik Debate, we began to reject pro-Rtvik postings that were simply propaganda: offering no new arguments, no new evidence, no new realizations. All that was being produced was a chewing of the chewed – repetition of the exact same statements that had been made over, and over. While a few deep sighs were heard (mostly from Madhudvisa prabhu) about the length of our serial challenge to Madhudvisa's Rtvik-vada position in the six-part "A Word and a Staple" series, with the exception of two replies from Madhudvisa himself (who avoided replying to the great majority of our points), we have had no rebuttals from the Rtviks. Instead of offering any substantive response to the detailed points of challenge we made, our Rtvik friends instead went off to the Rtvik/Prabhupadanugas forums, and complained that they weren't allowed to respond, because the Sun rejects or edits their postings. It has become a convenient excuse.
So let us make the statement clear, once again for the record. Rtvik devotees have an open invitation to publish in the Sun, but it is conditional. If you have something new to say, by all means, say it. While we strongly disagree with the position currently being laid out by Dusyanta das, for example, or the theory recently postulated by George prabhu, we're certainly willing to publish them. And as time permits, we attempt to respond. In "Word and a Staple", we made a number of specific points about the contents of the July 7th Conversation and how it relates to the July 9th Letter, and our assertions stand as an opportunity for members of the Rtvik camp to reply. We welcome their replies – as long as they actually address the specific points we made. We will continue to reject propagandizing that is off-topic, or that churns the same pro-Rtvik points we've all heard without addressing the specific arguments being made. But if any member of the Rtvik community actually wants to address our points, they're certainly welcome to do so, and we'll be happy to publish them. It seems, however, that they simply don't have any real counter-arguments. If they did, surely they would have at least published them on the Rtvik/Prabhupadanugas forums.
Unfortunately, it seems that the tendency among our Rtvik friends is to avoid meeting the challenge. Instead, we hear complaints like Janmastami's today, who claims he hasn't been writing because of "an overly censoring editor". Well, Janmastami prabhu, the only thing from you that we've censored is material that goes against the above-mentioned editorial policy, or that contains allegations of criminal behaviour for which you've provided no supporting evidence. On the subject of Rtvik-vada, you've sent us articles on occasion that have been off-topic, not met the challenges you were supposedly responding to, but instead propagandizing with the same Rtvik slogans we've heard endlessly. So yes, that material was censored. You knew the editorial policy, you ignored it, and some of your postings were rejected. Now if you want to use that as an excuse to avoid meeting specific challenges like those made in our recent articles, you're certainly free to do so. We'll even let you complain about the situation here in the Sun… once, at least. But please don't ignore the fact that you, and all your Rtvik associates, now have an opportunity to actually say something 'new'. We made quite a number of very specific points in "Word and a Staple" that beg a response from the Rtvik side. So instead of sheltering under the Sun's 'propaganda ban', why not give the kind of response that won't be banned: one that's actually on-topic, that rebuts the arguments we've made, offering logical, specific counter-arguments. That we would welcome, from you and anyone else.
In Janmastami's dramatic rhetoric about the scurrilous undertones with which the name "Ritvik" has been used, he compares it to the label "Communist" and refers to being 'tarred with that brush'. But here at the Sun, he is preaching to the choir on that subject. To this very day, we still find ISKCON leaders who insist we are Rtviks, and the Sun is a Rtvik site. Nothing could be further from the truth, of course, but their minds are made up. Don't confuse them with facts. Now, if Janmastami prabhu wants to challenge us on our application of the term "ritvik" or "rittik", he's more than welcome to do so. But we're not so interested in the sort of 'poor me' rhetoric he has given in today's article. The fact of the matter is, the label "Ritvik" is properly used to identify persons who accept the July 9th Letter as proof that Srila Prabhupada instructed a rtvik system of diksa initiations for after his departure. Anyone who believes that, who operates on that assumption, or who preaches it, is a Rtvik. This is common parlance, common sense.
While Janmastami goes on to complain about the "philosophical imperialism" of occasionally being asked to revise his articles (when they either propagandize Rtvik-vada or otherwise contain unsubstantiated allegations), we would remind him that the Sun is the only news site outside of the ISKCON institution and the Rtivk/Prabhupadanugas community that has been willing to publish his writings. And we constantly get flak from other devotees for doing so. Ah well… you can't please everyone. And sometimes you can't please anyone.
To underscore the point, today we have published Janmastami's article just as we received it, unedited, untouched by imperialistic Sun hands. We invite prabhu to read it, and compare it to some of his many prior Sun articles listed in the Editorials Index. Perhaps he will gain some appreciation for the hours of effort we have personally put into cleaning up his articles in an effort to facilitate sharing his message with the world – even his pro-Rtvik message. Hopefully from a more agreeable frame of mind, Janmastami das will put down his crying rag and pick up his mouse. Instead of moaning and groaning at Sun staff for editing out or rejecting his rote propagandizing of Rtvik slogans, he will instead make an effort to actually address some of the arguments that have recently been made in the Great Rtvik Debate. But please, prabhu, don't blame the Sun for your unwillingness to meet the challenge. You're as welcome to post here as you ever were.
