Invitation to the Rtviks
BY: GEORGE A. SMITH
Nov 07, 2011 — CALIFORNIA, USA (SUN) —
"In fact, when we consider the adjustments made in the July 7th Conversation, we see that Srila Prabhupada is arranging it in such a way that he is even willing to continue receiving letters and giving names:
Tamala Krsna: So if someone gives initiation, like Harikesa Maharaja, he should send the person's name to us here and I'll enter it in the book. Okay. Is there someone else in India that you want to do this?
Prabhupada: India, I am here. We shall see. In India, Jayapataka.
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja.
Prabhupada: You are also in India.
Tamala Krsna: Yes.
Clearly, Srila Prabhupada is including himself on the list of persons who would receive letters and pick names in India under this new arrangement, along with Tamal Krishna and Jayapataka."
(A Word and a Staple, Part Three by Rocana das)
There seems to me to be a some philosophical problems associated with Rocana dasa's arguments and presentation against the Rtviks that may interfere with our acceptance of his primary conclusion that Srila Prabhupada in no way intended for the Rtvik system that he had already set up in place to continue following his apparent physical departure.
The first problem that I noticed concerned, of all things "location" and a seeming mindset (thoroughly unintended I am sure) on the authors part that due to his conditioning could not but stop him from unconsciously and in some ways considering Srila Prabhupada in some ways a normal man.
I must apologize to Rocana if such words have wounded him, to get at the truth is my only intent. Nevertheless, I apologize for any hurt from them. You are in my eyes a true and sincere disciple of Srila Prabhupada and a great soul who has done me honor and tried your best to engage and instruct me in Krsna's service, and thus I can do no less than I do now, following your example. I beg your forgiveness and tolerance, nevertheless for any Vaisnava offences that I make to you.
As I mentioned above, the first hint that anything might be wrong with Rocana's conclusion, I found when reading his Word and a Staple, Part Three in which, while going over the excerpt that he included in his article from the July 7th Conversation, I read again this statement by Srila Prabhupada:
I must have read the same statement in different places a hundred times before and never thought of it, but this time the words were highlighted in bold, which focused my attention on them. While the highlighted words suggested one thing to Rocana das they suggested something entirely different to me. I imagine that if I were a spiritual person, that a moment of terror might have overcome me with the horrible thought that Krsna had gone out of Vrndavana and taken all of His eternal associates with Him, never to return, but as I am not a spiritual person it only took a few moments for my heart to resume beating as my mind grasped hold of the words of Srila Prabhupada and his assurances that Krsna would never leave Vrndavana.
Krsna hadn't left Vrndavana and neither had Srila Prabhupada then. Srila Prabhupada was therefore still in India, still in Vrndavana, eternally present there with Krsna and all the other of the Lord's nearest and dearest friends and associates.
Nitya-Siddha Srila Prabhupada has been, is now, and will always be there with Krsna in India, in Vrndavan and to think anything else, such as that he has vanished from that place simply because he has vanished from our material vision seems to me to reflect the most superficial of understandings.
"A devotee of Krsna is friendly to everyone. Therefore it is said here that he has no enemy (nirvairah). How is this? A devotee situated in Krsna consciousness knows that only devotional service to Krsna can relieve a person from all the problems of life. He has personal experience of this, and therefore he wants to introduce this system, Krsna consciousness, into human society. There are many examples in history of devotees of the Lord who risked their lives for the spreading of God consciousness. The favorite example is Lord Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the nondevotees, but he sacrificed his life for spreading God consciousness. Of course, it would be superficial to understand that he was killed. Similarly, in India also there are many examples, such as Thakura Haridasa and Prahlada Maharaja. Why such risk? Because they wanted to spread Krsna consciousness, and it is difficult. A Krsna conscious person knows that if a man is suffering it is due to his forgetfulness of his eternal relationship with Krsna. Therefore, the highest benefit one can render to human society is relieving one's neighbor from all material problems. In such a way, a pure devotee is engaged in the service of the Lord."
(Bhagavad-gita 11.55 Purport)
In the above noted portion quoted from Rocana dasa's "Word and a Staple" article series, its author is considering the portion of the quoted conversation to be reflective of only a temporary arrangement for the conducting of initiations, one that was meant to continue only as long as Srila Prabhupada was still physically present. While in my estimate he judges rightly that Srila Prabhupada is indicating here in this conversation that he is continually willing to receive letters or names of those who have been recommended for initiation and to give names, or in another words to remain the initiating guru for ISKCON. How this might be conducted is subject for another article but in respect to the point that Rocana dasa is trying to make here, what he is trying to prove, that the system is or was meant to end following Srila Prabhupada's physical disappearance from our view, it simply doesn't say that, and the absence of a proof doesn't prove anything. There is nothing in the conversation here that even hints at the thought that it is Srila Prabhupada's intention that this Rtvik system of initiation that he has begun is ever to stop. Therefore, it seems to me that Rocana dasa's conclusions based upon this excerpt are just as speculative or even more so than those of the Rtviks whose conclusions he is writing against.
Rocana dasa writes:
"In yesterday's segment, we pointed out the fact that the July 7th Conversation was not comprised of Srila Prabhupada instructing a ritvik diksa system for future initiations after his departure. Rather, he was addressing a specific problem Tamal Krishna had raised: that there was a bottleneck of aspirants seeking initiation, which had formed because the leaders had arbitrarily stopped engaging in the process for initiations Srila Prabhupada already had in place. Without authorization, they had stopped processing initiates because, they said, they were worried that it would cause further problems to Srila Prabhupada's health. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada instructed them to go forward – not to stop or delay – and he added a few adjustments to further streamline the process.
Although Madhudvisa das would like us to believe that in the July 7th Conversation, the adjustments Srila Prabhupada made were "obviously in preparation for the time when he would be no longer physically present with us", we have clearly shown that to be a speculative and false statement. This is underscored by several facts we didn't mention yesterday. First, in his July 7th remarks, Srila Prabhupada indicated that his health was not at issue with respect to initiations by instructing that initiations go forward. Please note that Tamal Krishna had introduced this discussion by suggesting (albeit not very succinctly) that the concern was about Prabhupada taking on the karmic burden of more new disciples."
In his article, Madhuvisa das admits to some of the truths of Rocana's contentions, i.e., that the July 9th Letter does not resemble the July 7th Conversation very much, nor does it contain the word 'henceforward'. In doing this, Madhudvisa concedes to Rocana that his (Madhudvisa's) original assertion, which was that the July 7th Conversation was basically a dictation of the July 9th Letter was an erroneous claim, an incorrect assertion. There is nothing, however, in either Madhudvisa or Rocana dasa's back and forth argument that takes into account the qualitative differences between the various personalities engaged in the July 7th Conversation nor their future locations, which for some of the personalities there at that time might very well be Hell or oblivion, if what even Rocana dasa suspects of some of them is true, i.e. that even at this time of conversation, they were trying to manipulate Srila Prabhupada into giving them control of the movement.
In Srila Prabhupada's case, however, he would remain in India, in Vrndavana, always with Krsna "henceforward," or forever, just as he would remain in his disciple's hearts forever, and as he will continue to remain a Sampradaya acarya forever in our line of disciplic succession which is inclusive of everyone else whom he must really be referring to in the comment following:
"India, I am here. We shall see. In India, Jayapataka.
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja."
"We" is certainly not referring to any group of blind worms, who if they had caught sight of even a glimmer of what their actions and intent portended for their future existence would be down on their bellies groveling at Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet for forgiveness in that instant, and not continually planning even then their takeover of their guru's institution. "We" must therefore really refer to "Those" who are Srila Prabhupada's eternal associates. Seen in such a way, this statement seems to refer to an innovation, a new thing that "They" would be trying, such as an adaptation of Krsna Consciousness according to Time, Place and Circumstance, or in other words, an adjustment more in keeping with the Western Way.
Before I continue, I would like to say with all respect to Madhudvisa that he is not really the type of person whom I would chose to debate with on a spiritual issue of such magnitude. For one reason, and to me the best is that he really does not represent the side that Rocana is claiming to debate (and claiming to have triumphed over). Madhudvisa is NOT, in fact, a Rtvik. He admits this himself in the self same article quoted from above.
"I think that sometimes people have misunderstood that I am a 'ritvik'. That has never been true."
(Ritvik Lies and ISKCON Lies by Madhudvisa das)
I am not trained in verbal combat, only in physical sparring, but as it is a form of combat and shares many of the same terms like "triumph", "victory," etc., I believe a comparison can be made here between physical combat and debate. Sometimes in our japa walks in Seattle we would walk down by the cemetery and sometimes by the grave of the martial arts master, Bruce Lee. As part of his training program he would spar with a wooden dummy. This was simply a form of training, of course, and he would caution his students to not think that sparing with a wooden dummy was the same as fighting with a real opponent, because real opponents hit back. Neither could one feel any real sense of triumph over having beaten the crap out of a wooden dummy, because it isn't really a victory, just practice for the main event.
Since the publication of his excellent "Word and a Staple" series of articles, Rocana dasa has informed me that he hasn't heard a "peep" out of the Rtviks. A pity, makes me think that not any of them are any more committed to their positions than Madhudvisa das is, or that Rocana das's terrifying ability to reason much, much better than they ever seem to have been able to has simply frightened them all into hiding under their chairs. Come on, get up here Rtviks, you Yasoda Nandana, or any of you. Don't make me do your fighting for you. More than likely Rocana dasa will bat me out of the ring with a flick of his wrist, but on the odd chance that he falls asleep during the fight or I can get a good sucker punch in and win, you will loose.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna
Ys George Smith
