Flat-Earth in the Ramayana, Part Two

BY: MAYESVARA DASA

May 07, 2019 — IRELAND (SUN) —

Whilst almost everyone in the modern world may find a reason to appreciate the fantastic plot of Ramayana along with its many important lessons, very few with a materialistic world-view would be willing to grant its status as an actual history of events on Earth. The incredulity becomes even more pronounced when we begin to speak of Ramayana as being a history of events that took place not on an Earth globe, but on an Earth circle that is millions of miles in diameter (the Vedic Bhu-mandala) .

Those who are quick to praise Ramayana as one of the world's great epics and classics of literature, may be just as quick to dismiss anyone as absurd or ridiculous should they ever dare to present Ramayana as a factual history of a greater Earth, or as evidence that the Earth is not a globe floating in space. In our on-going series of papers on Bhu-mandala we wish to show that it is actually the Earth globe idea that is embarrassingly unscientific, and exists as a mere belief system only due to a potent witches brew of delusion, ignorance, deception, propaganda, and indoctrination that the unfortunate people of the world have been made to swallow for the last several hundred years.

Part One of this paper can be found here.

In this Part Two, we shall discuss an important detail in Ramayana which is a description by Valmiki of the huge numbers of vanaras that were gathered from around the Bhu-mandala (Earth circle) in preparation for war with the demon Ravana. Without an understanding of its relevance to understanding the true size and shape of our Earth, Valmiki's mesmerizing description of inconceivable numbers of vanaras can be easily glossed over as hyperbole (exaggerated statements not meant to be taken literally). Taken in context of Vedic cosmology, the description actually provides a very important piece of information for Vaishnavas to develop both understanding and faith in the true size and shape of the Vedic Earth. The verses and commentaries from Ramayana are cited from the on-line English translations and commentaries to Valmiki Ramayana which can be found here.

In Part Three of this paper we will discuss specific details of where the vanaras came from, and where they were later sent by Sugriva in the search for Sita. By identifying the location of the areas we will proceed to show with reference to the Puranas that these places actually cover an area of Earth that is calculated to be hundreds of millions of miles in radius. We wish to impress upon the reader that the following description of unfathomable numbers of vanaras is at least consistent with the Puranas greater Earth concept.

An understanding of the inconceivable numbers of vanaras involved in the Ramayana war will also serve as a lesson and example to understanding other accounts in the Puranas of seemingly incomprehensibly large numbers of armies that fought on the Earth. These descriptions should not be taken as hyperbole, but rather as factual accounts of cosmic-sized armies that are occasionally gathered from the vast surface and underground realms of the colossal Bhu-mandala (Earth circle).

The Puranas give numerous accounts of various wars between the devas and asuras when comic-scale armies were assembled to fight each other. To cite just a few examples: in the Siva Purana (Rudrasamhita Yuddhakanda, chapter 33) , Sanat-kumara gives a detailed description of the army that was assembled by Siva in order to fight the demon Shankacuda. Siva's army numbered in the hundreds and thousands of crores (1 crore = 10,000,000). Virabhadra alone came with an army of one thousand crore of bhutas (10,000,000,000). The total account of all the combined armies is beyond calculation. The text mentions that some of the army 'were residents of the Earth, some of them of Patala, some of the sky, and some of the seven heavens.'

It is also stated that the asura Shankacuda had a general in command of an army of 300,000 akshauhinis. (Siva Purana, Rudrasamhita, Yuddhakanda, Chapter 34, Verse 18) According to Mahabharata, one akshauhini consists of 21,870 chariots, 21,870 elephants, 109,650 infantry, and 65,600 cavalry. Keeping in mind that each chariot and elephant in one akshauhini will also carry a number of warriors, when we multiply this number by 300,000 akshauhinis, it is truly an astonishing army.

Likewise the Skanda Purana gives a brief mention of the massive army assembled by Tarakasura:

"Thereupon at the instance of the Lord of Daityas, Bherl (drum) was beaten intensely and repeatedly which made (the Daitya soldiers) equip themselves suitably and get ready for war. It shook the entire universe. On being remembered by the king of the Daityas crores and thousands of crores and tens of hundreds of Parardhas of great Asuras came there immediately from the mountains, rivers, oceans, nether worlds and firmament. They had the lustre of the fire at the close of the yugas. The commander Kalanemi immediately advanced against Devas. Taraka was seated in a chariot that extended to four yojanas and had many wonderful features." (Skanda Purana, Mahesvara-kanda, Kumari-kanda, chapter 32, verses 8-11)

The above verse mentions that hundreds of parardhas of great asuras had assembled. According to the veda.wikidot.com page for Sanskrit numbers, a paraardha is 100,000,000,000,000,000. And the asuras had assembled hundreds of parardhas!

Through these narrations, the Puranas (histories) wish to inform us of the extent of the Earth and the inconceivable amount of living beings who live upon it. To get to grips with these terrifyingly huge numbers we need to understand them in context of the universal form (virat-rupa) of Sri Krishna. In the verse below, Sukadeva Goswami says that the Lord's universal body (isvarasya sthulam vapuh) is the abode (dhama) for all living beings (sakala-jiva-nikaya).

"My dear King, I have now described for you this planet Earth, other planetary systems, and their lands [varshas], rivers and mountains. I have also described the sky, the oceans, the lower planetary systems, the directions, the hellish planetary systems and the stars. These constitute the virat-rupa, the gigantic material form of the Lord, on which all living entities repose. Thus I have explained the wonderful expanse of the external body of the Lord." (SB 5.26.40)

The Bhu-mandala is the center-piece and largest feature of the universal form. The Bhu-mandala has a diameter of 4 billion miles and spans the entire center of the universe. It is hardly surprising, therefore, that such numbers of warriors can be accounted for in the descriptions of the periodic battles between devas and asuras for control of said Earth. The numbers are at least consistent with the greater Earth concept revealed by the Puranas.

When Krishna blessed Arjuna with a vision of His universal form, Arjuna was awe-struck, dis-orientated, and fearful seeing the unlimited and incomprehensible scale of Krishna's expansion as the universe itself. Like-wise, our sense of reality may be completely blown when we hear accounts of hundreds of demoniac army divisions with each division numbering 100,000,000,000,000,000 warriors. Interestingly, when describing the remarkable features of the universal form to King Pariksit, Sukadeva Goswami includes the prowess (viryah) of demoniac armies (asura-anika) as part of the awesome features of the Lord's terrifying cosmic form:

"…and the demoniac soldiers are representations of His wonderful prowess." (SB 2.1.36)

When Arjuna had initially asked Krishna to reveal His universal form, Krishna said:

"But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give you divine eyes. Behold My mystic opulence!" (Bg 11.8)

Without divine eyes (divyam caksuh) we are unable to behold or comprehend the vision of the universal form. However, with the requisite faith, we can also appreciate the reality of the virat-rupa by seeing through the eyes of shastra (SB 10.84.36). But just as one is unable to see the universal form without divine eyes, so one without faith in shastra will be unable to behold, or comprehend, or accommodate the above descriptions of practically incalculable numbers of warriors who live upon the universal form. The frog-in the-well tendency is to simply gloss over such figures as hyperbole. Although such numbers seems unbelievable from our frog-in-the-well perspective, the numbers of warriors mentioned are just a drop in the ocean of the practically numberless living beings who must live on the vast Earth circle. The figures are not unrealistic once we begin to calculate the actual size of the Vedic Earth. Again, whether one believes it or not, the figures are at least consistent with the greater Earth concept described as Bhu-mandala (Earth circle).

Although the battle of Kurukshetra was fought with only 18 akshauhinis, we should not think that Krishna's battles on the Earth were on any less of a grand scale. The Kaurava army assembled at Kurukshetra was practically the remnant of the asura forces that had already been annihilated by Krishna. To give just one example: Jarasanda had attacked Krishna 17 times and each time with a force of 23 akshauhinis. (See Srimad Bhagavatam, canto 10, chapter 50). On each occasion Krishna and Balarama destroyed the armies of Jarasanda. Jarasanda's army was only one of numerous examples of massive demoniac armies that had assembled on Bhu-mandala at that time. The various Puranas, Mahabharata, Hari-vamsa, Garga Samhita, etc, all provide various and unique details of these massive demoniac armies that were destroyed by Krishna-Balarama along with the Pandavas. Arjuna, for example, single-handedly destroyed a force of 30 million Nava-kavachas in a single battle.

[Indra said to Arjuna] "Nothing is there in the three worlds that is not in thy power to achieve. My enemies, those Danavas, named Nivata-Kavachas dwell in the womb of the ocean. And they number 30 million and are notorious, and all of equal forms, and strength, and splendour. Do thou slay them there, O Kunti's son; and that will be thy preceptor's fee." (Mahabharata,Vana Parva, Tirta-yatra parva, CLXVII)

The Pandavas were Lord Krishna's instruments in removing the demoniac burden on the Earth. We should not take such accounts as exaggerated:

"For Him who orchestrates the creation, maintenance, and destruction of the three worlds and who possesses unlimited spiritual qualities, it is hardly amazing that He subdues an opposing party." (SB 10.50.29)

Rather than considering such accounts as hyperbole, the Vaishnavas should begin to understand and appreciate that Krishna's pastimes took place on the great Earth circle (Bhu-mandala) not the supposed Earth globe. Before destroying Jarasanda's army, Krishna said:

"This is the purpose of My present incarnation—to relieve the Earth (bhu) of its burden, protect the pious and kill the impious." (SB 10.50.9)

The Earth in question is the vast Bhu-mandala, as described by Sukadeva Goswami in chapters 16-26 of the fifth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. The history in Mahabharata of the Pandavas recapture of the Earth on behalf of Krishna informs us that both Vedic history and Vedic cosmology are consistent and reveal Earth to be a colossal circular plane, not a small isolated planet. We have described some details of the Pandavas conquests in Bhu-mandala in previous papers. Links to these papers can be found here.

The Ramayana sometimes gives specific numbers for certain sections of Sugriva's army (e.g. one thousand crores of vanaras) and sometimes general numbers for other armies (e.g. 'many thousands' of crores). Since this is the case it is impossible to calculate the exact number in the vanara army. I'm not sure, therefore, if the following description of the vanara army from Ramayana amounts to the largest army ever assembled—but it is certainly a contender.

As we shall see, the description of inconceivable numbers of vanaras coming from these various places on the Earth to assist Lord Rama is impossible to explain from the small Earth-globe conception of reality. In modern times, the casual reader of Ramayana simply passes over these descriptions as exaggerations without any understanding of their relevance to the question of what is the real and factual nature of the Earth.

A modern reader with no knowledge or faith in the Bhu-mandala concept may be forgiven for being just a tad skeptical at the mesmerizing and almost incalculable numbers involved in this vanara army, but for those who have faith in the Vedic histories, the inconceivable numbers of vanaras involved starts to lose its mythological aspect and begins to make more sense when we calculate the land area of the greater Earth circle from which they came (this will be the subject of Part Three of this paper). The only reason why people have thus far read such accounts in the Ramayana text as imaginary or mythological is because they have either no idea of, or no faith in, the real nature and extent of the Earth as it is revealed in Vedic texts; moreover, since most people are unaware of the massive deception in regards to the so-called space travel that purports to scientifically prove that the Earth is indeed a small globe floating in space, the modern reader of Ramayana naturally assumes that ancient descriptions of a greater Earth circle containing countless other living beings is simply mythological.

By looking at the numbers of vanaras we get a sense of the scale of the operation that took place during Lord Rama's pastimes (lila) on this colossal land-scape.

In the verses that follow below from chapter [sarga] 37 of the Kishkinda Kanda, we will hear Sugriva giving an order to his vanara chiefs to fetch all the other vanara warriors from across the surface of the Earth. In Madhvacharya's Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya we hear that the vanaras were gathered from all seven islands which as mentioned cover an area of 202,800,000 miles. For those who have read our paper entitled Flat-Earth in the Mahabharata, it may be remembered that Madhvacharya was stated to be the third incarnation of Vayu, having previously appeared as the famous Hanuman in Ramayana and as the great warrior Bhima in the Mahabharata. Madhvacharya was thus a personal participant in the events of both Ramayana and Mahabharata, and superlative authority on the subject. Details of both great sagas are narrated in Madhvacharya's Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya. The following is from Adhyaya VI (chapter 6)

sa evamuktva harirajasannidhau dvipeshhu saptasvapi vanaran prati | sammelanaya.ashugatin sma vanaran prasthapayamasa samastashah prabhuh || 6.26

"Having said so in the presence of the king of monkeys, he (Hanuman), being really the lord of all, ordered some quick-going monkeys to go and fetch the other monkeys residing in the seven islands, and assemble them all together.

Those monkeys sent by Hanuman with the previous permission of the king of the monkeys, returned soon after, bringing with them the monkeys living in all the mountains and forests." (6.27)

Here we have an important confirmation from Madhvacharya that the vanara army was assembled from all the seven islands of Bhu-mandala. We shall confirm Madhvacharya's statement later in Part Three with references from Ramayana itself that name the different islands. As mentioned, the sapta-dvipa or seven islands of the Earth along with their surrounding oceans cover the middle portion of the Earth circle and measure at 202,800,000 million miles. We shall break down these measurements in Part Three of this work. For an introductory explanation of the seven islands and oceans of Bhu-mandala one may refer to this paper.

In the passage below we hear the instruction of Sugriva to his chief followers to gather a vanara army from various places on the Earth. Please bear in mind that although the translator has rendered the Sanskrit word 'vanara' into the English word 'monkey', vanaras as mentioned in Part One of this paper are not jungle monkeys as popularly portrayed in devotional art and film; rather, they are a highly advanced species endowed with various mystic powers, but having features that include both human and simian traits.

A graceful vanara dodging arrows

The yoga power or mystic power of the vanaras is important because it enables them to travel vast distances across the Bhu-mandala without the aid of machines. In Part Three we will hear specific details of the huge size and distances of the mountains such as Mount Meru and Himavata from which the vanaras came; indeed the colossal size of each mountain consistently explains how almost incalculable numbers of vanaras could come pouring in from these areas. Sugriva said:

"Convoke the Vaanaras available on the summits of these five mountains, namely Mt. Mahendra, Mt. Himalaya, Mt. Vindhya, and Mt. Kailash and those that are on the whitish peak of Mt. Mandara. As well as those that are on the mountains at seashore, udaya adri, namely 'sunrise-mountain,' which mountains will always be dazzling with the tinge of youthful sun. And them that are on the mountains which shine in the ochry hue of evening clouds, asta adri, namely 'sunset-mountain' and which mountains are situated at the Palace of Sun. And the catastrophic monkey chiefs that are abiding in the palm groves of Mt. Padma. Also thus, the fly-jumpers who are similar to black-mascara and black-clouds in their shine, and who match elephants in their vigour, and who live on Mt. Anjana, they too are to be convened. Those fly-jumpers whose complexion will be golden and dwell in the caves of Great-Mountain, besides those who are on the mountainsides of Mt. Meru, and those biding on the Black-Red mountain, along with those topmost speeded fly-jumpers living on Mt. Great-Ochre swilling palm-toddy, these are to be summoned. Further, the vanaras who will be in the tinge of rising sun and who dwell in the highly delightful, richly fragrant and lofty woodlands that are surrounded with the delightful hermitages of sages are to be summoned. Along with them, the vanaras who are in the interiors of forests, they are also to be called for. Why citing a few? Those and those monkeys that are on the Earth, all of them are to be assembled. Oh, Hanuman, you quickly summon all of the topmost speeded vanaras by employing concessions, conciliations and the like procedures. [Ramayana 4.37.2-9]

"Let all the lionly monkeys available on Earth that abide by my control start coming to this place in hundreds, thousands, even in millions, by my command. [4-37-13]

"The champions of monkeys with ghastly aspects and similar in shine with the mountains and clouds shall start coming here by my command, fly-jumping as though to overcast the sky. [4-37-14]

"Let those vanaras who know the routes to the dwelling places of other monkeys expeditiously proceed on quick-routes, and gather all of the monkeys available on Earth at my command." Sugreeva ordered Hanuma that way. [4-37-15]

On hearing the order of Sugreeva, the king of vanaras, Hanuma, the son of Air-god has started to dispatch valorous monkeys in all directions. [4-37-16]

In a split-second, the vanaras that are sent by the king of vanaras have skyrocketed to the airways of birds and stars on their way, and indeed reached the vault of heaven, which was once trodden by Vishnu. [4-37-17]

After skyrocketing those monkeys have reached the monkeys that are living at seashores and islands, in the caves and crags of mountains, and at lakeshores and their surrounds, and motivated all of the monkeys available there towards the cause of Rama. [4-37-18]

On hearing that command of the king of kings of Vanaras, Sugreeva, who is semblable with the Death-god and Time-god, all of the monkeys have arrived with the terror of Sugreeva haunting them." [4-37-19]

The next few verses give a few samples of a portion of the army that was soon to arrive:

"Then thirty million fly-jumpers whose swiftness is inconceivable, and whose shine is like that of black-mascara have sallied forth from mountain Anjana to there where Raghava is camping, i.e., Mt. Prasravana. [4-37-20]

(tisrah kotyah —three crores or thirty million)

Hundred million monkeys who take delight on the best mountain where the sun goes into dusk, namely the westerly mountains, asta adri, and whose hue is similar to the refined gold, for dusk has a golden hue, have jumped in. [4-37-21]

(dasha kotyah—ten crores or a hundred million monkeys)

Vanaras who are in the hue of lion's mane have turned up in thousand crores, say hundred billion from the pinnacles of Mt. Kailash. [4-37-22]

(koTi sahasraani—thousand crores, 1,000 x 10,000,000 = 10,000,000,000

Those that are sheltered on Himalayas subsisting on fruits and tubers have arrived in a thousand of thousand crores, say a trillion [4-37-23]

(koti sahasraanaam sahasram—a thousand x thousand crore).

Millions and millions of Vanaras whose looks and deeds are gruesome, and who equal the planet Mars in their crimson-flush, as they dwell on the hotbeds of Mt. Vindhya, have swiftly alighted from Mt. Vindhya. [4-37-24]

(vaanara kotiinaam sahasraani—thousands of crores)

The count of those vanaras who are basically domiciled at the coasts of milky ocean, the residents of Tamala woodlands, and those who feed on coconuts dwelling in coconut groves, and who have presently come from those places is uncountable. [4-37-25]

That highly forceful military force of vanaras has arrived from forests, caverns and riversides with their leaping and bounding on the sky blocking up the sun as if they have gulped him down. [4-37-26]

On motivating all of the monkeys on Earth, all those best monkeys who proceeded to forgather other monkeys, quickly returned to Kishkindha ahead of the forgathered troops of monkeys. [4-37-33]

Those quick paced monkeys quickly reached Kishkindha just at that moment when Lakshmana is still with Sugreeva, and those monkeys arrived at that place where Sugreeva is available along with Lakshmana. [4-37-34]

"We have rounded up all the mountains, rivers, and forests even, and all of the Vanaras available on Earth are fetched to your fore according to your command." Thus the monkeys said to Sugreeva. [4-37-36]

On listening these words then the king of fly-jumpers Sugreeva is gladdened and accepted the gifts brought from Himalayas from all of them." [4-37-37]

The above verses presented just a few examples of the vanara armies that had arrived first. The next few verses present the truly mind-blowing head count of Sugrivas vanara army:

"These are the hundreds of vanara chiefs, oh, enemy-subjugator, who have just returned on forgathering all of the forceful vanaras on Earth. [4-38-27]

"Oh, Raghava, the legatee of Raghu, those vanaras with dreadful appearance, and who are the experts in permeating the impenetrable forests, woodlands and impassable mountains are coming. And the bears, monkeys and brave baboons who are the children of gods and gandharvas, and who change their guise just by their wish are halfway through on their path duly fenced round with one's own forces. [4-38-28, 29]

"Oh, king, some of the fly-jumpers that are arriving are with a hundred-legion (shataih), some with a hundred-thousand legion (shata sahasraih ca), and even some with millions of legions (kotibhih ca), while the some are on the way with specific legions like aayutas, shankus. And oh, valiant one Rama, some with legions of arbudas, and some with hundreds of arbudas, some with madhyas, and some with antahs are coming. Some more are coming with samudras and some with paraardhas legions of monkeys. Oh, enemy-flamer Rama, the legions of monkeys along with their monkey commanders who are viable to Mahendra in valour, and who compare with massive clouds and mountains, and who domiciled on Mt. Meru and Mt. Vindhya will be coming in your service." [4-38-30, 31, 32]

Translations for some of the Sanskrit numbers mentioned above can be found at veda.wikidot.com which can be found here.

Some of the figures listed are as follows:

"Oh, king, some of the fly-jumpers that are arriving are with a hundred-legion (shataih—in hundreds), some with a hundred-thousand legion, (shata sahasraih ca in hundred thousands),and even some with millions of legions (kotibhih ca), while the some are on the way with specific legions like aayutas (10,000), shankus (10,000,000,000,000). And oh, valiant one Rama, some with legions of arbudas (arbuda is 100,000,000), and some with hundreds of arbudas, some with madhyas (10,000,000,000,000,000), and some with antahs are coming. (Antya?1,000,000,000,000,000) Some more are coming with samudras and some with paraardhas (100,000,000,000,000,000) legions of monkeys. Oh, enemy-flamer Rama, the legions of monkeys along with their monkey commanders who are viable to Mahendra in valour, and who compare with massive clouds and mountains, and who domiciled on Mt. Meru and Mt. Vindhya will be coming in your service." [4-38-30, 31, 32]

The different web-pages for explaining Sanskrit numbers are not always consistent. Even in our modern world, the old UK billion was rendered as a million million, whilst the US billion is rendered as a thousand million. It would be helpful for someone with a knowledge of Sanskrit numbers to confirm or correct the translations that I have presented here and those following below. My primary purpose here is not to obsess on the exact number for each name, but to merely give an idea that each of the names refers to an unfathomably large number. A full calculation of the vanara army was reported to the demon Ravana by one of his army commanders. The following translation to this chapter 28 of the Yuddha-kanda can be found here.

"After listening to Sarana's words Shuka, pointing out all that army of monkeys, spoke the following words to Ravana the Lord of Demons. (6.28.1)

"O, king! Do you observe those monkeys resembling huge elephants in rut, rising like banyan trees on the banks of River Ganga or Sala trees on Himalayas? Those warriors, able to change their form at will, are irresistible, equal to celestials and demons, and in a battle, are endowed with the valour of the gods." (6.28.1)

Shuka begins the count by saying:

"There are twenty one thousand crores, a thousand shankus and a hundred vrindas of these monkeys." (6.28.1)

In order to explain these numbers, Shuka calculates as follows:

"Wise men call a hundred lakhs as a crore. A hundred thousand crores is reckoned as a shanku." (6.28.13)

"A hundred thousand shankus are said to be one maha-shanku. A hundred thousand maha-shankus are called one vrindam here. A hundred thousand vrindas are said to be one maha-vrindam. A hundred thousand maha-vrindas are called one padmam here. A hundred thousand padmas are said to be one maha-padmam. A hundred thousand mahapadmas are called one kharvam here. A hundred thousand kharvas are said to be one mahakharvam. A hundred thousand maha-kharvas are called one samundram. A hundred thousand samudras are said to be one ogha/ugha here. A hundred thousand oghas are acclaimed a one maha-ugha." (6.28.34-38)

Shuka then explains the complete size of the vanara army:

"This Sugreeva, the king of monkeys, having great strength and valour, always surrounded by a colossal army, is approaching you to make war, accompanied by the valiant Vibhishana and the ministers, as also a hundred thousand crores of shankas, a thousand maha-shankus, a hundred vrindas, a thousand mahavrindas, a hundred padmas, a thousand maha-padmas, a hundred kharves, samudras and maha-ughas of the same number, and a crore of maha-ughas whole army as such is identical of an ocean. (6.28.39-43)

O, king! Carefully observing this army, which appears much the same as a blazing planet, prepare yourself for a great effort to get victory and take measures to avoid defeat from the enemies." (6.1.44)

The translations for the following Sanskrit numbers can be found here.

The Rayamana texts states that not only were there single divisions of each of these terrifyingly large numbers, but that each number was multiplied by hundreds and thousands: "as also a hundred thousand crores of shankas, a thousand maha-shankus, a hundred vrindas, a thousand maha-vrindas, a hundred padmas, a thousand maha-padmas, a hundred kharves, samudras and maha-ughas of the same number, and a crore of maha-ughas." (6.28.39-43)

Whether one thinks the number of vanaras is getting simply ridiculous, and is acceptable only for the truly gullible and idiotic, one should at least ponder the fascinating fact that people in ancient times were even counting such unfathomable numbers. Certainly, a primitive mind or culture has no need to devise or compute with such numbers. What are they going to count? Even in our modern word, we generally don't use numbers over trillions because we have nothing big enough to count. We can count trillions of dollars because trillions of dollars exist, but otherwise, we don't have a maha-padma or mahaugha of anything in this world. The fact that such large numbers even exist in the ancient world suggests that they were related to something that was real and calculable. My purpose here is merely to point out that such numbers are at least consistent with the description of the larger Earth circle that is found in the Puranas. The numbers make absolutely no sense from the perspective that Earth is a small globe.

A reasonable question to ask is why so many vanaras were required to fight Ravana. The answer to that question perhaps involves an understanding of the extent of Ravana's grip over the rest of the three worlds. Whatever the reason, Srila Vyasadeva confirms some of the large numbers of vanaras in the following passage from Mahabharata:

"Markandeya said, 'It was on the breast of that very hill where Rama was seated with those foremost of monkeys that great monkey chiefs at the command of Sugriva, began to flock together. The father-in-law of Vali, the illustrious Sushena, accompanied by a thousand crores of active apes, came to Rama. And those two foremost of monkeys endued with mighty energy, viz., Gaya and Gavakshya, each accompanied by a hundred crores of monkeys, showed themselves there. And, O king, Gavakshya also of terrible mien and endued with a bovine tail, showed himself there, having collected sixty thousand crores of monkeys. And the renowned Gandhamadana, dwelling on the mountains of the same name, collected a hundred thousand crores of monkeys. And the intelligent and mighty monkey known by the name of Panasa mustered together fifty-two crores of monkeys. And that foremost and illustrious of monkeys named Dadhimukha of mighty energy mustered a large army of monkeys possessed of terrible prowess. And Jambuvan showed himself there with a hundred thousand crores of black bears of terrible deeds and faces having the Tilaka mark. And these and many other chiefs of monkey-chiefs, countless in number, O king, came there for aiding Rama's cause. And endued with bodies huge as mountain-peaks and roaring like lions, loud was the uproar that was heard there made by those monkeys running restlessly from place to place." (Mahabharata, Vana Parva, Section CCLXXXI)

I must admit that I cannot even begin to calculate these numbers; for one thing, I am neither a mathematician or an accountant, and for another, I just stand in awe at Lord Rama's unlimited potency. Whatever the exact number, we wish to impress upon the reader that Valmiki's and Vyasa's description of such huge numbers of vanaras are not to be taken as imaginative or exaggerations; rather they are meant to inform us of the scale of the Earth as well as the incalculable number of inhabitants who live upon her.

The atheist who has convinced himself that all the matter in the universe came from nothing, and that matter evolved into life, and that life evolved on the Earth globe alone, and that he is a body without a soul, will of course, instantly dismiss these accounts of gazillions of mystical monkeys arriving from all over the 4 billion mile Earth as simply ludicrous.

British atheist Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion

The devoted reader of Ramayana, though absorbed in love of Sita-Rama-Laman-Hanuman, may also pause to legitimately ponder or question the narrative: are these colossal numbers of vanaras simply made up—a poetic license or embellishment perhaps on the part of the Valmiki to inspire the reader with a sense of cosmic drama? Whilst thinking like this, a doubt naturally arises that if Valmiki would make one thing up, then why not another; and if that is the case, then how does one know what is true and what is false in the rest of the narrative? If Valmiki's account of incomprehensible numbers of vanaras seems unbelievable (not to be believed), then what about the description of the Earth circle from which the vanaras are said to have come. Maybe that should also just be tagged as 'not believable.' And if one displays no faith in the Purana's description of the Earth circle (Bhu-mandala), how can be said to have perfect faith in the descriptions of the Lord's lila (pastimes) upon the said Earth? Where does doubt end and faith begin, and where does doubt begin and faith end?

For those with no faith in the Vedic account, a conclusion naturally forms in the mind that since the Purana's describe milk oceans, golden mountains, and giant wish-fulfilling trees, etc., that do not match anything in our known world, then obviously such descriptions must be nothing more than the exotic and imaginary 'literary creations' of writers such as Vyasadeva and Valmiki. The fanciful Earth realms of India's 'story-tellers' are thereby explained away as simply the charming landscapes of 'fictitious' or 'symbolic' tales about the Vedic gods and goddesses. Both Vedic cosmology and theology are thus simultaneously thrown out the window on the assumption that since the Vedic geography of Earth sounds so obviously 'fictitious', then the stories about the Vedic gods and goddesses must be made up as well. In this way, the idea that the Puranas and Itihastas are revealing factual knowledge of a greater Earth world that is controlled by supernatural power is quickly lost on the modern audience. By referring to the Bhu-mandala as 'mythological', the modern Earth globe concept is invariably extolled as the unquestionable reality.

The depreciation of the Vedic cosmology as 'mythological' is based on a narrative that the Vedic rishis living in the 'pre-scientific age', and without the aid of satellites and space ships could not possibly have known anything about the true size, shape, and nature of the Earth. Such a narrative must obviously ignore or discount the fact that the Puranas are full of descriptions of vimanas (flying ships) that can travel through-out the different lokas (localities) of the universe. What to speak of traveling in machines, the Puranas describe that simply by yoga power (siddhi), those with the eligibility can travel in the universe at their will. In any case, despite their own personal experience and testimony of other lokas (realms in the universe) the speakers of the Puranas such as Sukadeva Goswami declare that descriptions of the universe have been revealed via the disciplic succession (parampara) beginning with the creator of the universe Himself—Sri Krishna!

"I meditate upon that pure and spotless Supreme Absolute Truth, who is free from suffering and death, and who in the beginning personally revealed this incomparable torchlight of knowledge to Brahma. Brahma then spoke it to the sage Narada, who narrated it to Krishna-dvaipayana Vyasa. Srila Vyasa revealed this Bhagavatam to the greatest of sages, Sukadeva Gosvami, and Sukadeva mercifully spoke it to Maharaja Pariksit." (SB 12.13.19)

Here it says that the knowledge spoken in Srimad Bhagavatam was originally spoken by Krishna to Brahma. Brahma spoke Srimad Bhagavatam to Narada Muni, who then presented it to his disciple Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva taught Srimad Bhagavatam to his son Sukadeva Goswami, who in turn relayed the message to King Pariksit. The transcendental knowledge contained in Srimad Bhagavatam has thus been passed down from Sri Krishna Himself, through a disciplic succession that continues to the present day. By the wonderful endeavor of His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, knowledge of Srimad Bhagavatam has become widespread in the modern world.

Srila Prabhupada intended the Temple of Vedic Planetarium in Mayapur, West Bengal, to be a counter-challenge to the current materialistic explanations regarding the nature of life and the universe. As regards personal experience or evidence of what the universe looks like, Srila Prabhupada says that the common man has to believe either the secular authority or the spiritual authority; in either case, the common man has no personal experience and simply 'believes' what he hears via the newspaper or television. In that sense, the procedure for understanding the cosmic situation is no different from those who hear from the Vedic authorities:

"So shastra-cakshushat: our knowledge should be through the shastra. That is practical. And our process of knowledge is this: we get knowledge from shastra, like Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Vedic knowledge. We do not claim to be very big scientists. That is not possible. But we get knowledge from the best scientific man or person, the Personality of Godhead, Krishna, Vyasadeva, Narada, Asita, Devala, later on the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Shankaracharya, Chaitanya. Our process of knowledge is not any speculation… You may say that "You have not practically experimented," but what you have experimented? You also hear from others. You believe that they have gone to moon planet. You have not gone! You have heard from somebody in the newspaper, that's all. That is your authority. So if you can believe in the newspaper, then I cannot believe in the shastras?"

Since the intention of the Vedic rishi (seer) is to reveal the truth of God and thus establish certainty, such great personalities as Valmiki and Srila Vyasadeva are never given to speaking a falsehood or to creating doubts in people. Indeed, through-out the Puranas and Itihastas one will often hear a sage or brahmana saying "I have never spoken an untruth even in jest." Srila Vyasadeva himself says:

"Vyasa then said, 'Daughter of Suvala, it is even so. But my words can never be futile. I have not spoken an untruth even in jest." (Adi Parva Sambhava parva CXV)

If we accept Srila Vyasadeva at his word, then we must also accept his account in the Mahabharata of the hundreds of thousands of crores of vanaras who fought against Ravana. The emphasis on truthfulness is found through-out Vedic culture. Whilst speaking of the sage Jaratkaru, his wife of the same name confirmed his truthfulness by saying:

"Jaratkaru, thus addressed, consoling Vasuki, the king of the snakes, at length replied, saying, 'Asked by me about offspring, the high-souled and mighty ascetic said, 'There is,' and then he went away. I do not remember him to have ever before speak even in jest aught that is false. Why should he, O king, speak a falsehood on such a serious occasion?" (Adi Parva, Astika Parva, XLVIII)

Lies, falsehood, untruths, deceptions, illusions, etc., are tools employed by those of demoniac mentality. As Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita:

"na satyam tesu vidyate 'never truth is in them'" (Bg 16.7)

By contrast, satyam (truthfulness) is the quality of the divine nature:

"satyam...bhavanti sampadam daivim abhijatasya bharata" (Bg 16.1-3)

For a sage to be truthful, it is not enough simply to refrain from lying; to be truthful means never to utter something that is untrue. If a sage doesn't know the truth of something, then he won't speak whimsically or speculate on a subject because then he may be guilty of speaking something that is untrue. Certainly, there are exceptions to this rule that take into account extraordinary situations involving lives at stake etc., but the general rule of the Vedic culture is to never speak an untruth. From untruth, ignorance and illusion arises in the minds of the people, and when people are in a state of ignorance and illusion, then the asuras can easily manipulate them with deception, lies, and cheating. We see the disturbance caused by untruthfulness in our current society due to the phenomena of 'fake news' in which no one can discern fact from fiction, truth from lies, and reality from illusion.

For this reason, the brahmanas, rishis, and even ordinary members of the Vedic culture were always conscious to avoid not just telling lies, but also to avoid speaking something that wasn't true (things that are made up). Krishna says:

"Nonviolence, truthfulness (satyam), honesty, desire for the happiness and welfare of all others and freedom from lust, anger and greed constitute duties for all members of society." (SB 11.17.21)

The rishis don't make-up stories like a modern novelist or scriptwriter; the rishis have no need to invent stories because the reality they are depicting is amazing enough. By their divine vision, the rishis simply reveal the actual facts and true history of this extraordinary world.

The truthful nature of the rishis meant that a rishi's blessings would certainly come to pass; in other words, since the rishi's only spoke things that were true, their words of blessing would certainly manifest and never be made false. Contrarily, if a rishi pronounced a curse on someone, the rishi would not retract the curse even if the supplicant begged for forgiveness. This was not because the rishi lacked forgiveness or compassion, but because they were always obliged to speak the truth, and since words in the form of a curse had been spoken, those words could not be made untrue (by retracting the curse). For example, the brahmana boy Sringi, who cursed King Pariksit to die in seven days was unable to revoke his curse, because being only capable of making true statements, having once uttered the curse, he could not make it untrue:

"And Sringi then replied to his father, saying, 'Whether this be an act of rashness, O father, or an improper act that I have done, whether thou likest it or dislikest it, the words spoken by me shall never be in vain. O father, I tell thee (a curse) can never be otherwise. I have never spoken a lie even in jest.

And Samika said, 'Dear child, I know that thou art of great prowess and truthful in speech. Thou has never spoken falsely before, so that thy curse shall not be falsified.'" (Mahabharata, Adi Parva, Astika Parva, XLII)

The point being made in such examples is to show that the rishis feared that the utterance of an untruth would invite a greater calamity on society than the effects of an individual curse. Thus the curse of a rishi had to take its course, but the effect of a curse could be alleviated in some other ingenious way by the grace of the rishi.

The point of this digression is to show that the rishis will neither speak lies, or utter an untruth, and will always refer to the Vedic statements to establish the truth of something.

"O Shaunaka, please hear with attention the characteristics of a Purana, which have been defined by the most eminent learned brahmanas (brahma-rsibhih) in accordance with Vedic literature." (SB 12.7.8)

With this understanding of the integrity of Vedic rishis we should not entertain doubts that either Valmiki or Srila Vyasadeva are exaggerating or fabricating numbers. Atheists have no faith in the Vedic shastra, and it is not our task here to convince them otherwise, but at least for those who claim to believe in the Vedic literature, there can be no cause for doubting Valmiki's words. The same type of descriptions of cosmic-scale wars involving inconceivable numbers of warriors is found through-out the Puranas and is simply meant to inform us that our Earth (Bhu-mandala) is colossal in size, and that our own little domain of power and control is much, much smaller than our over-inflated false ego would have us believe.

So rather than simply glossing over these numbers as embellishments or fabrications, the devotee of Lord Rama can begin to consider that these figures are meant to be taken literally, and that they are spoken in order to inform us about the real truth regarding the size of the Earth, as well as the inconceivable nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead's unlimited potency.

As mentioned previously, the general approach of even the most devoted reader is to simply gloss over these descriptions without thinking too much about them; how anyway could one make any sense of them within the present understanding of Earth? Certainly, the figures don't make any sense from the paradigm of the Earth being a globe, because the small Earth globe could not maintain such numbers of vanaras. The only way to account for such numbers is to take seriously the idea that the Earth is not a globe, but rather a much bigger plane. The idea of taking it seriously is, of course, where a crisis of faith may ensue because it forces one to accept one or the other of the competing world-views.

For the record, the author of this paper no longer lives on an Earth globe. The author lives on the fixed un-moving Bhu-mandala that is held up by Ananta-sesha. The belief that we live on an Earth globe that is floating and spinning and hurdling aimlessly through infinite dark space has been completely expunged from my mind, and thus I have no personal difficulty in appreciating that Valmiki's Ramayana is a factual history of the greater Earth.

In Part Three of this paper we will look at Sarga 40 of the Kishkinda Kanda of Ramayana wherein Surgriva gives orders for the vanara army to search all the seven islands of Bhu-mandala. We shall consult various Puranas to ascertain the exact measurement of these lands belonging to the greater Earth plane. The descriptions of the vanaras searching through-out the seven islands of Bhu-mandala prove beyond a doubt that events in the Ramayana occurred not only in India, and not only in our known Earth, but to a greater Earth, the knowledge of which has been covered for many centuries due to the false teaching and propaganda that the Earth is a globe floating in space.

We hope that the information in this series of papers will particularly help free the wonderful Indian people from the ideological propaganda that they have been subject to for many centuries, and that it will inspire, once again, a complete conviction in the Vedic description of the Earth, and of the Lord's wonderful lila upon it. We have an intuition that once the true form of the Vedic Earth is again made known in India, many brilliant spiritual scientists will emerge to scientifically prove that we live on an Earth plane that continues into other parts of the Earth circle, and not as falsely propagated that we live on an isolated Earth globe floating in lifeless dark space.

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