Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's

Sri Jaiva-dharma
The Universal Religion
Volume Three

Table of Contents

Chapter Twelve
Nitya-dharma O Sadhana
Eternal Religion and Devotional Service in Practice			Page	2
Chapter Thirteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya-prayojana (Pramana-
vicara O Prameya Arambha)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya, and Prayojana
(Evidence and Truth)							Page	12
Chapter Fourteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya-prayojana (Prameyantar-
gata Sakti-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana
(A Description of the Lord's potencies)					Page	23
Chapter Fifteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya Prayojana (Prameyantargata
jiva-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya, and Prayojana
(The Individual Spirit Souls)						Page	34
Chapter Sixteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya Prayojana (Prameyantar-
gata Maya-kavalita Jiva-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana
(The Individual Souls Swallowed by Maya)				Page	44
Chapter Seventeen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya Prayojana (Prameyantar-
gata Maya-mukta-jiva-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya, and Prayojana
(The Souls Free from Maya's Prison)					Page	53

Chapter Twelve
Nitya-dharma O Sadhana
Eternal Religion and Devotional Service in Practice
	Sri Navadvipa-mandala is the best of all holy places in the world.  It is a thirty-two mile eight petal lotus flower.  The whorl of that lotus flower is Sri Antardvipa.  In the centre of Antardvipa is Sri Mayapura.  To the north of Sri Mayapura is Sri Simantadvipa.  In Simantadvipa is a temple of Sri Sinmanta-devi.  To the north of that temple is Bilva-puskarini, and to the south is Brahmana-puskarini.  The region that contains Bilva-puskarini and the Brahmana-puskarini is called Sumuliya by the people in general.  Therefore the village of Sumuliya-grama is in the northern part of Sri Navadvipa.  At the time of Sri Mahaprabhu this place was the home of many, many panditas.  This village was the home of Saci-devi's father, Sri Nilambara Cakravarti.  Not far from his house lived a vaidika brahmana named Vrajanatha Bhattacarya.  By studying in a school at Bilva-puskarini, in a few days he had attained great learning in nyaya-sastra, learning that was like a shoreless ocean.  All the famous panditas of Bilva-puskarini, Brahmana-puskarini, Mayapura, Godruma, Madhyadvipa, Amraghatta, Samudragar, Kuliya and many other places also were embarrassed and frustrated by Vrajanatha's skill in newer and newer logical arguments.  In the assemblies where the panditas were invited, Vrajanatha Pancanana became like a lion attacking a herd of elephants.  Raising newer and newer arguments, he made the panditas burn with anger.  Of these panditas a very hard-hearted logician decided to kill Pancanana by casting a spell from the Tantras.  Day after day he stayed in the cremation ground of Rudradvipa and chanted mantras to kill his foe.
	It was a frightening new-moon night.  Blinding darkness filled every direction.  At midnight in the cremation ground Naiyika-cudamani called out to his worshipable deity, "O mother only you should be worshipped in the Kali-yuga!  I have heard that you are very easily pleased by even a little chanting of your mantras and you easily grant boons.  O mother with the terrifying face, your servant has performed great austerities and chanted your mantra for many days.  Please be merciful this one time.  O mother, I have many faults.  Still, you are my mother.  Please forgive my faults and appear before me.  Again and again screaming, Tarka-cudamani offered oblations into the fire and chanted a mantra with Nyaya-pancanana's name.  What wonderful power did that mantra possess!  At that moment the sky became  covered with clouds.  A powerful wind blew.  A deafening thunder sounded.  Again and again there was lightning.  Many grotesque ghosts could be seen.  Intoxicated by drinking the sacrificial wine, Cudamani called out, "O mother, please don't delay!"  At that moment a voice spoke from the sky.  "Do not worry.  Nyaya-pancanana will not continue as a logician for many more days.  In a few days he will renounce logical debates.  Then he will become silent.  He will be your opponent no longer.  Be peaceful and go home."  Hearing this voice from the sky, Cudamani became happy.  Again and again he offered dandavat obeisances to Lord Siva, the author of the Tantras.  Then he returned home.
	Vrajanatha Pancanana became a dig-vijayi pandita when he was only twenty one years old.  Day and night he studied the books of Gangesopadhyaya.  Seeing many faults in Kanabhatta Siromani's commentary, he wrote his own.  He never thought about material affairs.  Neither would he turn his ear to spiritual life.  His whole life was logic, filled with phrases like "ghata, pata and avaccheda, vyavaccheda".  Even when he was resting, sleeping, eating or walking about, his heart was rapt in logic, thinking about the nature of time, reality, solids, liquids and a host of other things.  One day at sunrise at the Ganges' shore, as he was analysing the sixteen categories enunciated by Gautama Muni, a new nyaya student asked, "O saintly Nyaya-pancanana, have you heard Nimai Pandita's analysis of the atomic theory?"  Nyaya-pancanana roared like a lion, "Who is Nimai Pandita?  Do you speak of Jaganatha Misra's son?  What was His argument?  Please tell me."  The new student said that some days before in Navadvipa there was a great person named Nimai Pandita.  He was very expert in considering many different arguments of the nyaya-sastra.  He thoroughly embarrassed and defeated Kanabhatta Siromani.  Nimai Pandita had travelled to the father shore of the ocean of the nyaya-sastras.  Even though He was so learned, in the end He considered the nyaya-sastras to be insignificant.  He came to consider all material knowledge unimportant.  He became a sannyasi and travelled from place to place preaching the chanting of Lord Hari's holy names.  The Vaisnavas say He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, and they worship Him by chanting the "Gaura-Hari" mantra.  O saintly Nyaya-pancanana, please take a look at His logical arguments."  After hearing this praise of Nimai Pandita's logical arguments, Pancanana began to collect some of those famous arguments.  It is the nature of a man that when he is very interested in a certain subject, he will honour the great teachers of that subject.  Also. people tend not to honour great men while they are alive, but only after they are dead.  Thus,, after studying Nimai Pandita's logical arguments, Nyaya-pancanana held Him in great esteem.  He would say, "O Nimai Pandita, if only I had been born during Your time!  Then I could have been Your student!  Then I could have attained great learning!  O Nimai Pandita, please just once enter my heart! You are in truth the Supreme Brahman.  If this were not so, then how could these wonderful logical arguments have entered Your intelligence?  You are in truth Lord Hari with a fair complexion.  How can this not be?  You created the most wonderful logical arguments.  You destroyed the blinding darkness of ignorance.  Now is especially the time of blinding ignorance.  You are fair and effulgent.  You throw the darkness of ignorance far away.  You are Lord Hari Himself.  How can this not be?  You enchanted the minds of the entire world.  With Your logical arguments You have certainly enchanted my mind."  Again and again speaking words like these, Vrajanatha became like a madman.  He called out, "O Nimai Pandita!  O Gaura-Hari!  Please be merciful to me!"  He called out, "When will I be able to make logical arguments like Yours?  Please be merciful to me, so I can become a most powerful scholar of the nyaya-sastra!"
	Vrajanatha thought, "The worshippers of Gaura-Hari must be attracted to Him as I am, because of His great skill in logic.  I must see if they have any books about logic written by Him.  Thinking in this way, Vrajanatha decided to associate with the devotees of Lord Gauranga.
	Thus Vrajanatha again and again loudly chanted "Nimai Pandita! Gaura-Hari!" and many other holy names of the Lord.  He also desired to associate with the devotees of Lord Gaura.  These two acts brought him great spiritual merit just on the verge of bearing fruit.  One day, as he was taking his meal, he asked his paternal grandmother, "O saintly grandmother, did you ever see Gaura-Hari?  When she heard the name of Lord Gauranga, Vrajanatha's grandmother began to think of her childhood.  She said, "Ah, will the charming form of Gauranga ever again come before my eyes?  Who can remain a materialists after seeing Him?  When He chanted the holy names of Lord Hari, even the animals, birds, trees and vines all became stunned, overcome with spiritual love.  When I think of Him, tears from my eyes stream over my chest."  Vrajanatha asked, "O saintly grandmother, do you know any stories about Him?"  The grandmother replied, "Yes.  When He came to His maternal uncle's house with Mother Saci, the elderly women of our family serve Him the vegetable saka.  Praising the saka, He happily ate it.  O Vrajanatha, when His mother brought the plate of saka, he said, "Saka is the favourite of the logician Nimai Pandita", and he ate it with great relish.  No one can describe how much Vrajanatha, who was completely uninterested in spiritual life, became attached to Nimai Pandita because of Nimai's great learning in logic.  He took a fancy to Nimai.  When he heard Nimai's name he became happy.  When he gave alms to a beggar, he always said "Jaya Sacinandana!" he would visit the pandita babajis of Sri Mayapura, listen to them chant the holy names of Lord Gauranga, and ask them many questions about the Lord's victories in learned debate.  In this way two or four months passed.  Vrajanatha was now a changed man.  Previously it was only the descriptions of Nimai's learning in logic that pleased him.  Now any talk about Nimai pleased him.  Now he was no longer interested in logic.  The logician Nimai no longer lived in his heart.  Now it was the devotee Nimai who lived there.  When he heard the sounds of khola and karatalas, his heart danced.  When he saw the pure devotees, he bowed down before them in his mind.  Declaring that it was the birthplace of Lord Gauranga, he worshipped the land of Navadvipa.  Vrajanatha was now polite and gentle.  His opponents in the debating arena could see that his heart had become calm and cool.  No longer was he eager to shower them with arrows of logical arguments.  Nyaya-cudamani thought his worshipable deity had made Vrajanatha powerless.  Now he felt safe.
	One day, in a secluded place, Vrajanatha said to himself, "If Nimai could abandon the path of logic and turn to the path of devotion, then what is the harm we do the same?  When I was obsessed with logic, I could not hear the name of Nimai with attention and devotion.  Then the nyaya-sastra had me in its grip.  Then I ignored eating, sleeping, and everything else.  Now I look at the world with different eyes.  The arguments of the nyaya-sastra no longer enters my mind.  Now only the name Gauranga enters my minds.  Now when I see the Vaisnavas dancing I think how beautiful the dancing is.  But I am born in an exalted vaidika brahmana dynasty.  My dynasty is honoured in society.  The Vaisnavas are very respectable people.  Still, it is not good that I join them.  I worship Lord Gaura only within my thoughts.  That is the only proper way for me to act.  There are many Vaisnavas at Sri Mayapura, at the place where the Kazi broke the drums and at the place where there are many sannyasis.  When I see how their faces are effulgent, I become happy at heart.  Among them Sri Raghunatha dasa babaji greatly attracts my mind.  I think I should study the bhakti-sastras under his guidance.  In the Vedas it is said (Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 4.5.6):
	"One should always gaze upon, hear about, think of, and meditate on the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
	Although the word "mantavyah" (one should think about Him) here certainly refers to the nyaya-sastras, where by logical analysis one gradually attains knowledge of the Supreme, I have already spent a long time studying logic.  Now I think it is right for me to do a little more "srotavyah" (hearing about the Supreme).  For a long time logic was my life and soul.  Now I desire to take shelter of Lord Gaura-Hari's feet.  A little after sunset I will go to see Sri Raghunatha dasa babaji.  I think that is the best thing to do."
	The day was ended.  The sun was almost invisible.  A very gentle breeze blew from the south.  In every direction the birds had gone to their nests.  One by one the stars were visible in the sky.  At that time the Vaisnavas had begun the arati and kirtana in the courtyard of Srivasa's home in Sri Mayapura.  Vrajanatha then slowly entered and sat down under the bakula tree in the place in Srivasa's courtyard where the khola was broken.  As he listened to the chanting in the arati of Lord Gaura-Hari, his heart became softened.  When the kirtana ended, one by one the Vaisnavas came and sat under the bakula tree also.  When, proclaiming "Jaya Sacinanandana!, Jaya Rupa-Sanatana! and Jaya Dasa Gosvami!", elderly Raghunatha dasa Babaji Mahasaya also entered the courtyard, all the elder Vaisnavas greeted him with dandavat obeisances.  In that situation Vrajanatha could not avoid also bowing down before him.  Seeing the effulgence of Vrajanatha's face, the elderly babaji embraced him and sat down beside him.  He asked, "Baba, who are you?"  Vrajanatha replied, "I am a person who thirsts for the truth.  I have decided to learn the truth from you.  A Vaisnava sitting nearby knew who Vrajanatha was.  He said, "He is Vrajanatha Nyaya-pancanana.  In understanding nyaya-sastra no pandita in Sri Navadvipa is his equal.  Nowadays he has attained a little faith in Lord Sacinanandana.  Thus hearing the glories of Vrajanatha, the elderly babaji politely said, "Baba, you are a pandita, and we are poor fools.  You reside in the holy abode of our Lord Sacinanandana.  It is you who should be merciful to us.  How can we teach you?  It is you who should mercifully tell us about Lord Gauranga, and thus makes us cool and peaceful."  As the two of them conversed, all the Vaisnavas gradually left to fulfil their various duties.  Only the old babaji and Vrajanatha remained.
	Vrajanatha said, "O saintly babaji, I was born as a brahmana.  Therefore I am very proud of my learning.  I am so proud that I see the entire world as my possession.  I do not know that I should honour saintly persons.  How did I become fortunate, that I now have some faith in your saintly character and actions?  How can I know that?  I wish to ask one or two questions.  Please answer them.  I do not come to mock or trick you.  Please tell me: What is the true goal of life and how may the spirit soul attain it?  When I studied nyaya-sastra I came to the firm conclusion that the Supreme Lord and the individual spirit soul are different eternally.  It is only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord that the individual spirit soul can attain liberation.  The Supreme Lord's mercy is then the means by which one attains liberation.  By that means, then, one attains the goal of life.  Many times I asked the nyaya-sastra., 'What is the true goal of life and how may the spirit soul attain it?', but the nyaya-sastra gave me no answers.  I was always thwarted.  Please tell me your idea of what is the goal of life and the way to attain it."
	Sri Raghunatha dasa babaji was very wise.  For many days he had lived at Radha-kunda, where he took shelter of Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami's feet.  There he spent every afternoon listening to Lord Gaura's pastimes from Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami's own mouth.  Many times Sri Raghunatha dasa Babaji and Sri Krsnadasa Kaviraja would discuss the spiritual truth, and if any doubt arose among them, they would ask Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami to give the answer.  At that time Sri Raghunatha dasa Babaji was the most prominent of the pandita babajis.  Many times he and Prema dasa, the paramahamsa babaji of Sri Godruma, would discuss the nature of pure spiritual love for the Lord.  Happy to hear Vrajanatha's question, he replied, "O saintly Nyaya-pancanana, a person who after studying the nyaya-sastra is eager to understand the true goal of life and the way to attain it is very fortunate in this world.  Why should he not be considered fortunate?  Nyaya-sastra is an attempt to understand what is the most important thing.  Scholars who understand that grasp the truth of the nyaya-sastra.  However, they who study nyaya-sastra only to attain skill in debate do not repeat the true fruit of nyaya.  Their labour is all for nothing.  Their lives are wasted.  What is attained when one follows the path that leads to the truth is called the true goal of life.  The method one adopts to attain that goal is the way of attaining the true goal of life.  According to their different qualifications, the individual souls trapped in the material world have differing conceptions of what is the true goal of life.  Still, the true goal of life is only one.  It is not two.  According to their different qualifications, the spirit souls proclaim three different goals of life.  They are: 1. bhukti (material sense gratification), 2. mukti (impersonal liberation), and 3. bhakti (devotional service).  They who yearn for material pleasures and are bound by ropes of material karma affix that bhukti is the true goal of life.  The scriptures are a kamadhenu cow that fulfils all desires.  Whatever one desires, there is a description somewhere in the scriptures of how to attain it.  For they who desire material pleasures, the scriptures give the karma-kanda section of the Vedas.  The residents of the material world generally yearn for material pleasures, so the scriptures gives certain specific instructions to them.  They who have material bodies generally think sense pleasures are the best and most important attainment.  The material world is, after all, the abode of material sense pleasures.  The material sense pleasures the soul attains from the time of birth until the time of death are called 'pleasures this world', and the material sense pleasures one may attain after dying are called 'pleasures of the next world'.  There are many different kinds of pleasure in the next world.  In Svargaloka and Indraloka there are the pleasures of seeing the apsaras' dancing, the pleasure of drinking heavenly nectar, smelling the flowers and other scented objects in the Nandana gardens, seeing the beauty of Indrapuri and the Nandana gardens, hearing the singing of the gandharvas and others, and living with the Vidyadharis are all pleasures attainable in Svargaloka.  To a lesser degree these same kinds of material sense pleasure are also available in Tapoloka and Maharloka.  In Bhuloka (the earth) the material sense pleasures are gross.  As one goes to higher and higher planets, the sense pleasures become more and more subtle.  In this way they are different.  Still, they are all material sense pleasure.  It is not that any of them are not material sense pleasures.  None of these planets are spiritual.  The subtle body of mind, intelligence and false ego is a perverted reflection of spirit.  In the higher planets the pleasures are pleasures of the subtle body.  All these different kinds of material pleasures are called 'bhukti'.  The conditioned souls trapped in the circle of karma take shelter of karmic activities in order to attain material sense pleasures.  That is called their 'sadhana', the means they adopt to attain what they see is the true goal of life.  In the Yajur Veda (2.5.5.) it is said:
	"One who desires to attain Svargaloka should perform the asvamedha-yajna."
	Thus the asvamedha-yajna, agnistoma-yajna, visvadeva-bali, istapurta, and darsa-paurnamasi are some of the ways the scriptures give for the conditioned soul to attain material sense pleasures.  In this way the materialists say that material sense pleasure is the true goal of life.  Then there are other persons who, tortured by the flames of trouble that must accompany life in the material world, know that the fourteen material worlds filled with sense pleasures are all unimportant and unworthy places, and therefore yearn to escape the circle of karmic reactions.  These persons think that liberation is the true goal of life.  They think that material sense pleasures are the ropes that bind them to the material world.  Therefore they say, 'Let they whose desire for material pleasures has not been destroyed follow the karma-kanda's prescription for attaining sense pleasures.  Nevertheless in the Bhagavad-gita (9.21) it is said: ksine punye martya-lokam visanti (When they have thus enjoyed heavenly sense pleasure, they return to this mortal planet again.  Thus, through the Vedic principles, they achieve only flickering happiness*).  In this sloka it is seen that material sense pleasure is not eternal.  At a certain point it certainly wanes and perishes.  It must perish.  It is material.  It is not spiritual.  One should therefore strive to attain a result that is eternal.  Liberation is eternal.  Therefore liberation is the true goal of life for all spirit souls.  The fourteen practices that begin with renunciation are the way to attain it.  Therefore they are the way of attaining the true goal of life.  Therefore to understand the true goal, of life and the way to attain, one should study the jnana-kanda portion of the Vedas'.  The scriptures are like a kamadhenu cow in that the scriptures give different attainments to different living entities according to their different qualification.  Even if a spirit soul attains impersonal liberation, that liberation is not the final goal of life.  The highest stage of impersonal liberation is called 'nirvana', where the individual souls imagine that they cease to exist.  However, the spirit souls exist eternally.  That is their nature.  Therefore this imaginary 'nirvana' never actually occurs.  That the individual spirit souls are eternal is confirmed by these words of Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.13):
	'The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal.  The Supreme Lord is cognisant and the living beings are cognisant.'*
	In this way the Vedic mantras affirm that the individual spirit soul exists eternally.  It is not possible for something that exists eternally to ever cease to exist.  They who affirm that the individual spirit soul continues to exist even after liberation also affirm that neither 'bhukti' (material sense pleasures) nor 'mukti' (liberation) are the final, highest goal of life.  These are lesser goals.  All activities are in relation to a particular goal and a method of attaining that goal.  The goal is called 'sadhya', and the means by which one attains it is called 'sadhana'.  Think of it in this way: goals and ways of attaining them are like links in a chain.  What at first is considered a goal, later becomes a means and something else is the goal.  In this way goals and means are like links in a chain, with each goal being eventually hanged into a means for attaining a new goal.  Continuing in this way there is one final goal that does not become the means of attaining another goal.  That final goal is 'bhakti' (devotional service).  Therefore devotional service is the final goal, because devotional service is the eternal nature of the individual spirit souls.  The activities of human beings are all various links in this chain of goals and means.  The different kinds of karmic activities are different links in this chain.  Following them, the different kinds of philosophical speculation (jnana) are also links in this chain.  After the links that are philosophical speculation, come to the link 'bhakti' (devotional service).  The goal of fruitive activities (karma) is material sense pleasure (bhukti).  The goal of philosophical speculation (jnana) is impersonal liberation (mukti).  The goal of devotional service (bhakti) is pure love of God (prema-bhakti).  The final conclusion, then, is that bhakti is the final means, and the goal attained by bhakti is bhakti.  Fruitive work (karma) and philosophical speculation (jnana) are then only the primary and intermediate links in the chain of means of goals.  They are  not the goal."
	Vrajanatha: It is said in the scriptures (Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 4.5.25 and 2.4.24):
	"Who is the seer and who the seen?"
	It is also said (Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad 1.4.10):
	"I am Brahman."
	It is also said (Aitareya Upanisad 1.5.3):
	"Brahman is spiritual truth."
	It is also said (Chandogya Upanisad 6.8.70):
	"O Svetaketu, you are that."
	In these and many other passages of scripture it is not at all seen that devotional service is the final goal.  Therefore, how can it be wrong to say that impersonal liberation is the final goal?
	Babaji: I have already said that the goals are different according to the different desires of the living entities.  They who yearn after material sense pleasures do not accept liberation as the final goal.  To these persons the scriptures advise (Apastamba Srauta-sutra 2.1.1):
	"They who perform the caturmasya-yajnas attain immortality."
	There are also many other passages like this.  Baba, is the word 'mukti' (liberation) of any use at all?  The fruitive workers (karmis) do not aspire for it.  They ask, "Why is the word 'mukti' (liberation) never mentioned in the mantras of the four Vedas?"  One or two karmi philosophers claim that renunciation is only meant for the incompetent, and they are competent should be engaged in fruitive work (karma).  These instructions are written in the scriptures so that persons situated in the lowest level of spiritual qualification may be steady in their duties.  It is not auspicious for the living entities to shirk the duties that fit their spiritual qualification.  When a person is steady in the duties for which he is qualified, he easily becomes qualified for the next level of duties.  Therefore the Vedas do not criticise being steady in one's duties.  Rather, one who criticises the performance of duties himself falls down.  The souls in this world who have become advanced in spiritual life have all reaped the good results of being steady in their duties.  The impersonal path, where one employs philosophical speculation (jnana) to attain liberation, is not revealed to persons qualified only for fruitive work (karma).  The impersonal path, where one employs philosophical speculation (jnana) to attain liberation, is not praised in the presence of persons qualified only for fruitive work.  The Vedic mantras praise it only in the presence of persons qualified to follow the impersonal path.  As the impersonal path is superior to the path of fruitive work, so the path of devotional service is superior to the impersonal path.  By speaking words like "tat tvam asi" (You are that) and "aham brahmasi" (I am Brahman), the Vedic mantras make the impersonalist steady in his duty of acting to attain liberation.  The Vedas are not to be blamed for doing that.  Still, the impersonal liberation described there is not the ultimate stage.  The final conclusion of the Vedic mantras is that the final goal is love of God and that goal is attained by performing devotional service.
	Vrajanatha: Is it possible that great maha-vakyas of the Vedas have describe only secondary goals and  means?
	Babaji: You may call some mantras maha-vakyas, but the Vedas themselves do not distinguish any particular mantras as better than the others.  In order to claim that their doctrine is superior, the impersonalist teachers have labelled some mantras maha-vakya, and all other Vedic mantras are subordinate to it.  If one wishes to call all the statements of the Vedas maha-vakyas, there is nothing wrong in that.  However, if one wishes to label one particular mantra the maha-vakya, and all the others ordinary vakyas, then one commits an offense to the sacred Vedas.  In the Vedas there is praise for fruitive work (karma), praise for impersonal liberation (mukti), and praise for many other goals and means also.  Still,, one must consider everything as a whole and determine what is the final conclusion of all the Vedas.  The Vedas are like a cow, and the milkman is Lord Krsna.  It is He who reveals the true purpose of all the Vedas.  He explains (Bhagavad-gita 6.46-47):
	"A yogi is greater than the ascetic, greater than the empiricist and greater than the fruitive worker.  Therefore, O Arjuna, in all circumstances be a yogi.*
	"And of all yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshipping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all."*
	In the Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.23) it is also said:
	"Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed."*
	In the Gopala-tapani Upanisad (1.14) it is said:
	"Devotional service to Lord Krsna is performed when the heart no longer desires any material benefit to be obtained in this life or the next.  This is freedom from the bonds of karma."
	In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (1.4.8) it is said:
	"One should worship the Supreme Lord, considering Him the most dear."
	In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (4.5.6) it is also said:
	"One should gaze on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, hear about Him, think of Him, and meditate upon Him."
	One who analyses these statements of the Vedas will easily see that devotional service is described in the Vedas as the means to attain the goal of life.
	Vrajanatha: In the karma-kanda section of the Vedas it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate awarder of the fruits of karma.  In this way the karma-kanda enjoins one to have faith in devotional service.  In the jnana-kanda also, pleasing Lord Hari by engaging in His devotional service is described as one of the four means of attaining the goal.  If devotional service is thus one of the means employed to attain sense gratification and impersonal liberation, then how can devotional service be the final goal of life?  When sense gratification or impersonal liberation are attained, then the means employed to get them are thrown away.  That is what is generally taught.  Please give me some clear teaching on this point.
	Babaji: In the karma-kanda portion of the Vedas it is said that one should engage in devotional service in order to attain sense gratification, and in the jnana-kanda portion of the Vedas it is said that to attain impersonal liberation one should engage in devotional service.  That is true.  Without first pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead, no one can attain any result.  The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the abode of all potencies.  The individual spirit souls and the material worlds are only a small part of the Lord's potencies.  The Supreme Lord is not pleased by fruitive work (karma) or impersonal speculations (jnana).  However, when karma and jnana take shelter of devotional service, they can give certain results.  Therefore it is said that in karma and jnana the reflection of devotional service is present.  However, the devotional service seen in karma and jnana is not pure devotional service.  It is merely a reflection of true devotional service, present there to give certain results.  This reflection of devotional service is of two kinds: 1. the reflection of pure devotional service, and 2. the reflection of mixed devotional service.  The reflection of pure devotional service I will describe later.  The reflection of mixed  devotional service is of three kinds: 1. the reflection of devotional service mixed with karma, 2. the reflection of devotional service mixed with jnana, and 3. the reflection of devotional service mixed with both karma and jnana.  At the time of performing a yajna one may say, "O Indra, O Surya, please be merciful and give me the result of this yajna."  This is an example of the reflection of devotional service mixed with karma (karma-viddha-bhakty-abhasa).  Some philosophers call this reflected devotional service karma-misra bhakti (devotional service mixed with karma), and others call it aropa-siddha bhakti (artificial devotional service).  Another example is seen in the words, "O Krsna, pushed by fear of repeated birth and death, I now approach You.  Day after day I chant the Hare Krsna mantra.  Please be merciful and give me impersonal liberation."  Another example is the words, "O Supreme Lord, You are Brahman, and I have fallen into the abyss of maya.  Please pick me up and make me one with You."  These two statements are examples of the reflection of devotional service mixed with jnana.  Some philosophers call this kind of reflected devotional service jnana-misra bhakti (devotional service mixed with jnana), and others call it aropa-siddha bhakti (artificial devotional service).  All these reflections of devotional service are different from pure devotional service.  The devotional service described by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gita 6.47 (sraddhavan bhajate yo mam) is pure devotional service.  It is that kind of devotional service that we adopt as the means to attain the goal of prema (pure love of God).  Karma and jnana are the means to attain sense gratification and impersonal liberation.  They are  not the means for the individual spirit soul to regain his eternal nature."
	After hearing all this, Vrajanatha could not ask any questions.  He though, It will be good to make the argument for the nyaya-sastra wait for a while as I think about this subtle points.  The saintly babaji is especially learned about this topic.  In time I will ask him questions and then I will learn what is the truth of this.  Now it is night.  I should return home."  Then Vrajanatha said aloud, "O saintly babaji, I have learned many truths from you today.  From time to time I will return.  Please continue to instruct me.  You are a very great teacher, and I am dependent on your mercy.  There is one thing I wish to know.  When I hear your reply I will depart.  Did Lord Gauranga the son of Saci write any book of His teachings?  I would like to have such a book."
	Babaji: Sri Sri Mahaprabhu did not write any book Himself.  By His order His followers wrote many books.  Mahaprabhu personally wrote eight verses, called Siksastaka, which are like a jewels the devotees wear around their necks.  The teachings in them are very profound.  Studying these deep truths, the devotees have written a poem called Dasa-mula (the Ten Roots).  In this poem the goal and the means are briefly described in terms of sambandha (the relationship of the living entities and the Supreme), abhidheya (the activities of that relationship) and prayojana (the final goal of life).  You should begin by understanding this poem.
	Vrajanatha replied, "As you order.  Tomorrow evening I will return and learn this Dasa-mula from you.  You are my siksa-guru (instructing spiritual master).  I offer dandavat obeisances to you."  The saintly babaji politely embraced him and said, "Baba, You purify the community of brahmanas.  Please come tomorrow evening.  That will please me very much."
	
Chapter Thirteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya-prayojana (Pramana-vicara O Prameya Arambha)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana (Evidence and Truth)
	The next evening Vrajanatha sat down under the bakula tree facing the courtyard of Srivasa's home.  The saintly elderly babaji had developed a kind of paternal love for Vrajanatha.  He was waiting for Vrajanatha to come.  When Vrajanatha arrived, the babaji at once came out from the courtyard.  Embracing Vrajanatha, he took him to his cottage (bhajana-kutira) in a grove of jasmine vines to one side of Srivasa's courtyard.  Touching the dust of the saintly babaji's feet, Vrajanatha thought that his life had now become successful.  He humbly said, "O saintly babaji, please teach me the Dasa-mula, which contains the essence of our Lord Nimai's teachings."
	His heart blossoming with happiness to hear this very appropriate question, the elderly babaji said, "Baba, I will explain the Dasa-mula to you.  You are a pandita.  Please carefully understand the truths described in these verses.  The first verse is this:
	"The Vedas teach that Lord Hari is the Supreme Truth.  He has all potencies and He is an ocean of the nectar of transcendental mellows.  The individual spirit souls, which are His parts-and-parcels, are divided into groups, some swallowed up by the material energy, and others free from her clutches.  Everything that exists is simultaneously one and different from Him.  Pure devotional service is the way to attain Lord Hari.  The goal of life is to love Him.  This Lord Gauracandra personally taught to the living entities."
	In the verses that begin here, Sriman Gauracandra teaches ten truths to the faithful souls.  Of these the first verse describes the various kinds of evidence, and the remaining nine verses describe various truths learned from these evidences.  First the evidence is given, and then the truths that may be learned from that evidence.  Evidence is called 'pramana'.  The verse I have just recited is an introductory verse that contains a summary of the "Dasa-mula".  The verse that follows it is the first verse of the Dasa-mula proper.  In verses two through eight the relationship (sambandha) of the souls and the Lord is revealed.  In verse nine the activities (abhidheya) of that relationship are described.  In verse ten the true need of the living entities (prayojana) is described.  The meaning of the introductory, summary verse is this:  The word 'amnayah' means 'the statements of the Vedas as they are understood through the disciplic succession."  The Vedas, the Srimad Bhagavatam and other Smrti-sastras that follow the Vedas, and the direct perception and other kinds of evidence that support the evidence of scripture are all called 'pramana', or evidence.  These evidences support the following definite conclusions: 1. Lord Hari is the Supreme Truth, 2. He has all potencies, 3. He is an ocean of the nectar of transcendental mellows, 4. the two liberated and conditioned souls are His parts-and-parcels, 5. some souls are imprisoned by the material energy, and others free from her clutches, 6. the entire material universe, which contains both matter and spirit, is inconceivably, simultaneously one and different from Him, 7. devotional service is the way to attain Lord Hari, and 8. the goal of life is to love Lord Krsna.
	After hearing this summary verse, Vrajanatha said, "O saintly babaji, now is  not the time for me to ask any questions.  After you recite the first verse I will speak any questions that may arise in my heart.  Hearing this, the elderly babaji said, "Good.  Good.  I will recite the first of these mula verses.  Please listen carefully.
	"The self-evident Vedas, which by Lord Hari's mercy are obtained from the disciplic succession beginning with the demigod Brahma, and which are accompanied by other sources of evidence, such as direct perception, are the evidence for the following nine truths.  Ordinary logic, called 'tarka', has no power to enter a discussion of these truths."
	Vrajanatha: Is there any evidence i the Vedas that Brahma taught disciples?
	Babaji: Yes.  There is.  In the Mundaka Upanisad (1.1.1) it is said:
	"Brahma, who is the first demigod, the creator of the universe, the protector of the worlds, spoke knowledge of the Supreme, the first of all kinds of knowledge, to his eldest son, Artharva."
	There it is also said (Mundaka Upanisad 1.2.13):
	"Brahma taught him the science of the eternal Supreme Person."
	Vrajanatha: Is there any evidence that when they wrote the Smrti-sastras the sages gave the proper interpretations of the Vedas?
	Babaji: In Srimad Bhagavatam, which is the crest jewel of all scriptures, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself explains (11.14.3):
	"At the time of cosmic annihilation, the Vedas became lost.  At the beginning of the next creation I again taught the Vedas to the demigod Brahma, for the principles of true religion are My very heart.  Then Brahma repeated this knowledge to his first son Manu.  Then the seven great sages, whose leader is Bhrgu, learned this knowledge from Manu."
	Vrajanatha: Why is there a Vaisnava disciplic succession?
	Babaji: Misled by impersonalism, many people in the world have left the true path.  If the devotees untainted by impersonalism do not have their own disciplic succession, then it will be very difficult to associate with true devotees of the Lord.  In the Padma Purana it is written:
	"Unless you are initiated by a bona-fide spiritual master in the disciplic succession, the mantra that you might have received is without any effect.*  The four Vaisnava disciplic successions, beginning from Laksmi-devi, Brahma, Siva and Sanaka Kumara, have purified the entire world."
	Of all of these, the disciplic succession from Lord Brahma is the oldest.  The disciplic succession begins with Brahma and extends even to the present day.  The Vedas, Vedangas, Vedanta, and other scriptures have been passed down unchanged from an ancient time, carefully preserved by the disciplic succession.  Nothing has been changed or added to the scripture under the care of the disciplic succession.  Therefore no one should doubt that the Vedas and other scriptures that are accepted by the bona-fide disciplic succession are authentic.  There is a great need for a bona-fide disciplic succession.  Therefore from the earliest time the great saints have followed the bona-fide disciplic succession.
	Vrajanatha: Are there complete lists of the disciplic successions?
	Babaji: The lists contain the names of only the most important acaryas.  It is their names that are included in the lists.
	Vrajanatha: I wish to hear the list of acaryas in the disciplic succession from Brahman.
	Babaji: Here is the list:
	"Lord Brahma is the direct disciple of Visnu, the Lord of the spiritual sky.  His disciple is Narada, Narada's disciple is Vyasa, and Vyasa's disciples are Sukadeva Gosvami and Madhvacarya.  Padmanabha Acarya is the disciple of Madhvacarya, and Narahari is the disciple of Padmanabha Acarya.  Madhava is the disciple of Narahari, Aksobhya is the direct disciple of Madhava, and Jayatirtha is the disciple of Aksobhya.  Jayatirtha's disciple is Jnanasindhu, and his disciple is Mahanidhi.  Vidyanidhi is the disciple of Mahanidhi, and Rajendra is the disciple of Vidyanidhi.  Jayadharma is the disciple of Rajendra.  Purusottama is the disciple of Jayadharma.  Sriman Laksmipati is the disciple of Vyasatirtha, who is the disciple of Purusottama.  And Madhavendra Puri is the disciple of Laksmipati."*
	Vrajanatha: In this verse it is said that the Vedas are the 'only evidence', and direct perception along with the other sources of evidence, should be accepted only to help in understanding the Vedas.  However, nyaya, sankhya and the other philosophies are also sources of evidence.  The Puranas, direct perception, inference, comparison, the Vedas, the Vedic histories (Itihasa).  Understanding something by its absence (anupalabdhi), circumstantial evidence (arthapatti), and probability (sambhava) are all considered different sources of evidence.  Why should it be considered that some kinds of evidence are more valuable than others.  If direct perception and inference are not considered sources of evidence, then what kind of knowledge will one be able to get?  Please explain this so that I may understand.
	Babaji: Direct perception and other sources of evidence like it all depend on the material senses.  The material senses of the conditioned soul are subject to four defects:  1. bhrama (mistakes), 2. pramada (illusions), 3. vipralipsa (cheating), and 4. karanapatava (sensory inefficiency).  How can one attain true knowledge with such faulty instruments?  The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself appeared in the hearts of the great saints and sages as they were rapt in meditation on Him.  The Lord then gave them the perfect knowledge that is the Vedas.  Therefore without fear one can accept the Vedas as truth.
	Vrajanatha: Please explain these four defects: mistakes, illusions, cheating, and sensory inefficiency.
	Babaji: When the imperfect material senses make mistakes in perceiving the world around it, that is called 'bhrama'.  Seeing a mirage in the desert is an example of such a mistake.  The intelligence of the conditioned souls is limited.  Therefore, when such a limited intelligence tries to understand the unlimited Supreme Truth, the limited intelligence is bound to be illusioned in many ways.  That is called 'pramada'.  An example of this is seen when the material intelligence, limited by time and space, questions how the Supreme Person could have created the material world of time and space.  Doubt is called 'vipralipsa'.  The material senses are not very efficient tools for acquiring knowledge.  When they make mistakes again and again that is called 'karanapatava'.
	Vrajanatha: Do not sensory perception and other sources of knowledge have any value at all?
	Babaji: Is there a way to understand the material world except with the material senses and other like sources of knowledge?  Still, all these sources of knowledge are powerless to understand the spiritual world.  For the spiritual world the Vedas are the only source of knowledge.  If sense perception and these other sources of evidence confirm the truths revealed in the Vedas, then the knowledge and other life sources of knowledge may be accepted only when they confirm the teachings of the self-perfect Vedas.
	Vrajanatha: Are the Bhagavad-gita, Srimad Bhagavatam and other like scriptures not sources of true knowledge?
	Babaji: The Bhagavad-gita has come from the mouth of the Supreme Lord Himself.  It is also called the Gita Upanisad.  It is counted as one of the Vedas.  Because they are the teachings of Lord Gauranga, the ten verses of Dasa-mula are also one of the Vedas.  The Srimad Bhagavatam is an anthology of the truths described in the Vedas.  It is the crest jewel of all sources of knowledge.  If they confirm the Vedas' teachings, the other smrti-sastras are also sources of true knowledge.  The tantra-sastra are of three kinds: 1. those in the mode of goodness, 2. those in passion, and 3. those in ignorance.  Among them, the pancaratras and other tantras in the mode of goodness expand the confidential portions of the Vedas' teachings.  The word 'tantra' comes from the verbal root 'tan' (to expand). Therefore these tantras are also counted among the sources of true knowledge.
	Vrajanatha: The Vedas consist of many different books.  Among them which should be accepted and which not?  Please tell me.
	Babaji:  In the course of time certain unscrupulous men interpolated many new chapters, mandalas, and mantras in the text of the Vedas.  Therefore it is not that all the parts of the Vedas should be accepted.  What in the course of time the acaryas in the bona fide disciplic succession have accepted, that should be considered the actual Veda.  What they have rejected as interpolations should not be accepted.
	Vrajanatha: What books of the Vedas have the acaryas of the bona fide disciplic successions accepted?
	Babaji: The acaryas have accepted the twelve Upanisads named Isa, Kena, Katha, Prasna, Mundaka, Mandukya, Taittiriya, Aitareya, Chandogya, Brhad-aranyaka and Svetasvatara, as well as the Gopala-tapani Upanisad, the Nrsimha-tapani Upanisad and other like tapani Upanisads, as well as the brahmanas, mandalas, and other portions of the Rg, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas.  The acaryas have accepted all these books as sources of genuine knowledge.
	Vrajanatha: You said that material logic has no power to understand spiritual things.  What is the proof of that?
	Babaji: In the Katha Upanisad (1..2.9) it is said:
	"The spiritual truth cannot be understood by material logic."
	In the Vedanta-sutra (2.1.11) it is said:
	"Transcendental topics cannot be understood by argument or logic."*
	In these and other statement of the Veda and Vedanta it is seen that material logic cannot be counted on as a source of true spiritual knowledge.  In the Mahabharata (Bhisma-parva 5.22) it is said:
	"Anything transcendental to material nature is called inconceivable, whereas arguments are all mundane.  Since mundane arguments cannot touch transcendental subject matters, one should not try to understand transcendental subject matters through mundane arguments."*
	In these words of the Mahabharata, the limits of material logic are seen.  The conclusion of devotional service is also explained in these words written by Srila Rupa Gosvami (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.32):
	"For persons who have a natural taste for understanding books like Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.  Devotional service is easier than for those simply accustomed to mental speculation and argumentative processes."*
	Material logic cannot bring a definitive, conclusive understanding.  This is described in the following words (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.33):
	"A person may become governed by certain convictions derived by his own arguments and decisions.  Then another person, who may be a greater logician, will nullify these conclusions and establish another thesis.  In this way the path of argument will never be safe or conclusive."*
	If this is so, then what is the use of material logic and argument?
	Vrajanatha: O saintly babaji, I accept that the self-perfect Vedas are the best of all sources of knowledge.  If they try to contradict the Vedas, the logicians are merely speaking in vain.  Now please recite the second verse of the Dasa-mula.
	Babaji:
	"Lord Hari is the only Supreme Truth.  Brahma, Siva, and Indra bow down before Him.  The impersonal Brahman, which is completely untouched by matter, is the effulgence of His transcendental form.  The all-pervading Supersoul is His expansion.  He is the father of the material universes.  He is the lover of Sri Radha.  His form is splendid like a dark monsoon cloud.  He is completely spiritual."
	Vrajanatha: The Upanisads teach that the impersonal Brahman is the highest truth and it is beyond the touch of matter.  Why, then, does Sriman Gaura-Hari affirm that it is the effulgence of Lord Hari's body?  Please explain that to me.
	Babaji: Lord Hari is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavan.  The word 'bhagavan' means "He who possesses six opulences".  In the Visnu Purana (6.5.47) it is written:
	"Full wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation - these are the six opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."*
	These six opulences are interrelated, like the limbs of a body.  Which of them is the body?  Which of them are the limbs?  The body is the resting place of the limbs.  The tree is the body, and the branches are the limbs.  The whole form is the body, and the hands and feet are included among the limbs.  The body is the resting place of the limbs.  Of the Supreme Lord's opulences, His handsomeness is the body and the other opulences are the limbs.  Wealth, strength, and fame are three limbs.  The effulgence of fame consists of knowledge and renunciation.  Therefore these two are the effulgence of one of the limbs.  They are the opulences of an opulence.  They are not direct opulences themselves.  Knowledge of changeless spirit and renunciation of matter are the parts of the body of the impersonal Brahman.  The impersonal Brahman is the effulgence emanating from the spiritual worlds.  The unchanging inactive formless, qualityless Brahman is not the independent highest truth.  It is the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead that is the independent highest truth.  The light of a fire is not independent.  It is the fire itself that is independent, and the light is merely one of the fire's qualities.
	Vrajanatha: In many places in the Vedas, after the impersonal Brahman was described, the text declared, "Om Santih. Santih. Harih. Om."  In the way the Vedas affirm the superiority of Lord Hari.  Who is Lord Hari?
	Babaji: Lord Hari is Radha and Krsna, who enjoy transcendental pastimes.
	Vrajanatha: I will ask about this later.  Now please tell me: What kind of expansion of the Supreme Lord (bhagavan) is the Supersoul (paramatma), the father of the material universes?
	Babaji: Employing the two opulences of wealth and strength, the Supreme Lord created the material world of maya.  After creating the world, the Lord expanded Himself as Visnu and entered it.  When the Lord expands Himself, each expansion is perfect and complete.  This is described in the following words of Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (5.1):
	"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes.  Whatever is produced of the complete whole is also complete in itself.  Because He is the complete whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance."*
	Therefore the Supersoul (paramatma), is Lord Visnu, who is perfect and complete, who has entered the material world, and who protects the material world.  Lord Visnu thus manifests in three forms, as: 1. Karanodakasayi Visnu, Ksirodakasayi Visnu, and Garbhodakasayi Visnu.  The Karana Ocean, which is also known as the Viraja River,, lies on the boundary that separates the spiritual and material worlds.  To that place Lord Maha-Visnu goes and reclines on the Karana Ocean.  Thus He is Karanodakasayi Visnu.  Glancing at her from far away, the Lord employs Maya-devi to create the material world.  The Lord Himself describes this in these words of Bhagavad-gita (9.10):
	"The material nature is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, and it is producing all moving and unmoving beings."*
	In the Vedas it is said (Aitareya Upanisad 1.1.):
	"The Supreme Personality of Godhead glanced over the material creation."*
	It is also said (Aitareya Upanisad 1.1):
	"The Supreme Personality of Godhead created this entire material world."*
	The Supreme Lord, whose glance is so powerful, expands Himself as Garbhodakasayi Visnu and enters the material world.  The particles of light that constitute Lord Maha-Visnu's glance are the conditioned spirit souls.  Into the heart of each conditioned soul, the Lord enters in a form the size of a thumb.  That form is called Ksirodakasayi Visnu or Hiranyagarbha.  Thus the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit soul both reside in the heart.  This is described in the following words of Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.6):
	"The individual spirit soul and the Supersoul, Supreme Personality of godhead, are like two friendly birds sitting on the same tree."*
	In this way the Sruti-sastra explains that the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit soul are like two birds.  The bird that is the Supreme Personality of Godhead gives the fruits of karma, and the bird that is the individual spirit soul tries to enjoy the material world.  In Bhagavad-gita (10.41-42), the Supreme Lord declares:
	"Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendour.*
	"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge?  With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire creation."*
	Therefore the Supersoul (paramatma), who creates, enters, protects and controls the material world, is an expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead (bhagavan).
	Vrajanatha: I accept that the impersonal Brahman is the effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead's body and that the Supersoul is His expansion.  Now please tell me:  What is the proof that Lord Krsna is the original form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead?
	Babaji: The Supreme Personality of Godhead has all opulence and sweetness eternally.  When His opulence is manifested, He is Lord Narayana, the master of the spiritual world and the origin of Lord Maha-Visnu.  Thus when His pastimes of opulence are manifest He is Lord Narayana, and when His pastimes of sweetness are manifest, He is Lord Krsna.  Lord Krsna possesses the highest limit of sweetness.  The effulgence of His sweetness is so great that it eclipses all opulence that exist anywhere.  Therefore the conclusion is that Lord Narayana and Lord Krsna are not different.  However, in the spiritual world the greatest sweetness of transcendental mellows is present in Lord Krsna.  He is the highest resting place of all transcendental mellows.  This is explained in the following words of the Rg Veda (1.22.164.31):
	"I have seen a certain gopa dressed in colourful garments and accompanied by many beautiful girls as He wanders the pathways in the spiritual world.  That same gopa again and again enters the material worlds and stays in the hearts of the living beings."
	In the Chandogya Upanisad (8.13.1) it is said:
	"To attain Sri Radha I surrender to Lord Krsna.  To attain Lord Krsna I surrender to Sri Radha."
	These verses describe the liberated souls and their relationship with Lord Krsna.  In Srimad Bhagavatam (1.3.28) it is said:
	"All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krsna is the original Personality of Godhead."*
	In the Bhagavad-gita (7.7) Lord Krsna Himself declares:
	"O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no truth superior to Me."*
	In the Gopala-tapani Upanisad (1.20) it is said:
	"Lord Krsna is the worshipable, all-pervading supreme controller, and although He is one, He manifests in many forms."
	Vrajanatha: Lord Krsna has an average-sized form.  How can He be present everywhere?  If we accept that Lord Krsna has a form, we must also accept that His form can only stay in one place at time.  Now He must fall under the control of the material modes. No longer can He be supremely independent.  How call all these defects be removed from Lord Krsna?
	Babaji: Baba, you are a conditioned soul trapped in the material world of maya.  That is why you have all these doubts.  As long as it is bound by the ropes of maya, your intelligence will never be able to touch the transcendental reality.  When it tries to understand the pure spiritual reality, it will assume that spirit has qualities and forms just like those of matter.  When it does this, the intelligence becomes worried that it has followed the wrong path.  Then the intelligence begins to imagine that the Supreme Spirit has no form and no qualities.  In this way the intelligence becomes cheated and cannot understand the truth about the Supreme Spirit.  In truth the defects you think might affect the ordinary sized form of Lord Krsna do not have any bearing on His true spiritual form.  The idea that the Supreme Spirit is "formless", "unchanging", and "inactive" are ideas obtained by looking for the exact opposites of what appears in the material world.  These are also qualities of a certain kind.  Qualities of another kind are Lord Krsna's handsome form, His face blossoming with happiness, His lotus eyes, His lotus feet, which give peacefulness to the devotees, and all His graceful limbs perfect for enjoying transcendental pastimes.  This pure spiritual  form of Lord Krsna is one feature of the Lord.  When these two features, the personal and impersonal, are considered, it is seen that the average-sized form of Lord Krsna is the most handsome and pleasing.  This is described in the following words of Sri Narada-pancaratra:
	"Lord Krsna is supremely independent.  His form and qualities are free of any possible flaw.  His body is not like the bodies made of matter.  His hands, feet, face, belly, and all the other parts of His body are all made of transcendental bliss and nothing else.  Lord Krsna is not different from His body.  He does not reside in a material body from Himself, as the conditioned souls in the material world do.  He and His body are one."
	Lord Krsna's form is eternal and full of knowledge and bliss.  His qualities are not material.  Nothing about Him is material in even the slightest degree.  He is not limited by material time and space.  His form is fully present in every place for all time.  He is one.  His form has all knowledge.  The material world is so large it cannot be measured by the conditioned souls.  It is natural that a form of average size could never be present everywhere in the material world.  However, in the spiritual world all qualities have limitless power.  Therefore the average-sized form of Lord Krsna can be present everywhere.  That is actually one of its natural qualities.  In the material world an average-sized form cannot be all-pervading.  However, the supremely handsome spiritual form of Lord Krsna is certainly all-pervading.  The extraordinary qualities of that form are very different from the qualities of material forms.  That spiritual form is very glorious.  Can anyone be more glorious than the all-pervading Supreme Spirit?  In the material world everything is limited by time and space.  What is the glory of a form that is free from the limits of time and present everywhere?  Lord Krsna's transcendental abode of Vraja is described in the Chandogya Upanisad, which calls it "Brahma-pura".  That abode is perfectly spiritual.  It has all spiritual wonders.  Its activities are all spiritual.  Its places are spiritual.  Its land and water are spiritual.  Its rivers and trees are spiritual.  Its sky is spiritual.  Its sun, moon, and stars are all spiritual.  They have not the slightest drop of any material flaw.  Rather they filled with spiritual bliss.  O baba, the Navadvipa-Mayapura where you are sitting now is that same spiritual world.  However, because you are trapped in Maya's net you cannot reach out and touch it.  When you attain the mercy of a great saintly person you will see that everything in this place is spiritual.  Then you will be living in the spiritual world of Vraja.  When did you get the idea that the average-sized form of Lord Krsna could have any flaws?  The glory of Lord Krsna's average-sized spiritual form is far from what your material intelligence can understand.  This has happened because in the past you committed many impious deeds.
	Vrajanatha: O saintly babaji, Sri Sri Radha-Krsna's forms, beauty, features, pastimes, companions, homes, forest-groves, and all else of Them are purely spiritual.  A wise man will not doubt that.  However, in what times and places do They manifest Their forms, abodes, and pastimes?
	Babaji: Sri Krsna is the master of all potencies.  He can make any possible thing possible.  There is nothing surprising in this.  He is playful and enjoys transcendental pastimes.  Whatever He wishes is at once accomplished.  He has all powers.  If He wishes, He can bring His transcendental form and abode to the material world.  There is no doubt of that. 
	Vrajanatha: The doubt is this.  By His own will Lord Krsna appears in the material world.  However, the people who see Him tend to think that His "transcendental abode" is a material place like other material places, His "transcendental form" is a material form like the forms of ordinary human beings, and His "transcendental pastimes in Vraja" are ordinary material activities.  Why do they see like that?  If it is true that Lord Krsna has mercifully appeared within the material world, why do not all people see that His form is spiritual?
	Babaji: One of Lord Krsna's limitless transcendental qualities is His mercy to His devotees.  Employing His hladini sakti, He gives His devotees the power to see that everything about Him is spiritual.  To His devotees He reveals everything about His transcendental pastimes.  However, the non-devotees' eyes, ears and other senses, which are contaminated by many offenses, cannot see any difference between the pastimes of the Lord and ordinary historical  narratives of human activities.
	Vrajanatha: Did not Sri Krsna descend to this material world to show mercy to the people in general?
	Babaji: His descent to this world brings all auspiciousness.  When He descends to this world and manifests His transcendental pastimes, the devotees can see that His form and pastimes are purely spiritual.  The non-devotees surely see them as material.  Still, merely by seeing them, the non-devotees gain great spiritual merit.  When this spiritual merit accumulates and becomes very great they become able to have faith in pure devotional service.  Therefore the Lord's descent to this world brings a great benefit to the conditioned souls.
	Vrajanatha: Why are Lord Krsna's pastimes not clearly described in every page of the Vedas?
	Babaji: On every page the Vedas again and again sing the glories of Lord Krsna's pastimes.  In some places they are described directly and in other places they are only hinted at.  When the words of the texts directly refer to Lord Krsna, the description is direct.  An example of that is the following words of the Chandogya Upanisad:
	"To attain Sri Radha I take shelter of Lord Krsna.  To attain Lord Krsna I take shelter of Sri Radha."
	In these words and the words that follow it in the Chandogya Upanisad, the liberated souls and their service to Lord Krsna in the different rasas is clearly described.  When the words only hint at the description of Lord Krsna, the description is indirect.  In the conversations of Yajnavalkya, Gargi and Maitreyi (in the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad), the description of Lord Krsna is at first indirect, and then at the end direct.  In some places the Vedas have described Lord Krsna's eternal pastimes directly, and in other places, chanting the glories of the impersonal Brahman and the Supersoul, the Vedas have described Lord Krsna only indirectly.  In truth, the Vedas have taken a vow to chant the glories of Lord Krsna.
	Vrajanatha: O saintly babaji, Lord Krsna is the Supreme Truth.  Of this there is no doubt.  However, what is the status of Brahma, Siva, Indra, Surya, Ganesa, and the other demigods worshipped in this world?  Please tell me.  Many brahmanas say that Siva is the Supreme Truth and no one is higher than Him.  I was born in the family of such a brahmana, and I have heard and repeated this idea since childhood.  What is the truth of this?  Please tell me.
	Babaji: Now I will describe to you the relative merits of the ordinary living entities, the demigods and demigoddesses worshipped in this world, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  Please listen.  I will now repeat to you a list of some of Lord Krsna's transcendental qualities.  They are described in these words of a great philosopher (Srila Rupa Gosvami's Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu:
	"Krsna, the supreme hero, has the most beautiful transcendental body.  This body possesses all good features.  It is radiant and very pleasing to the eyes.  His body is powerful, strong and youthful.*
	"Krsna is the linguist of all wonderful languages.  He is a truthful and very pleasing speaker.  He is expert in speaking and He is very wise, learned, scholar and a genius.*
	"Krsna is very expert in artistic enjoyment.  He is highly cunning, expert, grateful and firmly determined in His vows.  He knows how to deal according to time, person and country, and He sees through the scriptures and authoritative books.  He is very clean and self-controlled.*
	"Lord Krsna is steady, His senses are controlled, and He is forgiving, grave, and calm.  He is also equal to all.  Moreover, He is magnanimous, religious, chivalrous, and kind.  He is always respectful to respectable people.*
	"Krsna is very simple and liberal, He is humble and bashful and He is the protector of the surrendered soul.  He is very happy, and He is always the well-wisher of His devotee.  He is auspicious and He is submissive to love.*
	"Krsna is very influential and famous, and He is the object of attachment for everyone.  He is the shelter of the good and the virtuous.  He is attractive to the minds of women, and He is worshipped by everyone.  He is very, very rich.*
	"Krsna is the Supreme, and He is always glorified as the Supreme Lord and controller.  Thus all the previously mentioned transcendental qualities are in Him.  The fifty qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead above mentioned are as deep as the ocean.  In other words, they are difficult to comprehend.*
	"These qualities are sometimes very minutely exhibited in living beings, but they are fully manifest in the Supreme Personality of Godhead.*
	"Apart from these fifty qualities, there are five other qualities found in the Supreme Personality of Godhead that are partially present in demigods like Siva.*
	"These qualities are: 1. the Lord is always situated in His original position, 2. He is omniscient, 3. He is always fresh and youthful, 4. He is the concentrated form of eternity, knowledge and bliss, and 5. He is the possessor of all mystic perfection.  These are another five qualities, which exist in the Vaikuntha planets in Narayana, the Lord of Laksmi.  These qualities are present in Krsna, but are not present in demigods like Lord Siva or in other living entities.  These are: 1. inconceivable supreme power, 2. generating innumerable universes from the body, 3. being the original source of all incarnations, 4. bestowing salvation upon enemies killed and 5. the ability to attract exalted persons who are satisfied in themselves.  Although these qualities are present in Narayana, the dominating Deity of the Vaikuntha planets, they are even more wonderfully present in Krsna.*
	"Apart from these sixty transcendental qualities, Krsna has an additional four qualities, which are not manifest even in the personality of Narayana.  These are: 1. Krsna is like an ocean filled with eaves of pastimes that evoke wonder within everyone in the three worlds.  2. In His activities of conjugal love, He is always surrounded by His dear devotees who possess unequalled love for Him.  3. He attracts the minds of all three worlds by the melodious vibration of His flute.  4. His personal beauty and opulence are beyond compare.  No one is equal to Him, and no one is greater than Him.  Thus the Supreme Personality of Godhead astonishes all living entities, both moving and non moving, within the three worlds.  He is so beautiful that He is called Krsna.*
	"Above Narayana, Krsna has four specific transcendental qualities - His wonderful pastimes, an abundance of wonderful associates who are very dear to Him (like the gopis), His wonderful beauty and the wonderful vibration of His flute.  Lord Krsna is more exalted than ordinary living beings and demigods like Lord Siva.  He is even more exalted than His own personal expansion Narayana."*
	These sixty-four opulences are fully, eternally and splendidly manifest in Lord Krsna, whose pure spiritual form is eternal and full of knowledge and bliss.  The last four opulences are present only in the form of Lord Krsna.  They are not present in even the Lord's pastime incarnations.  Now that these four qualities are excluded, the remaining sixty qualities are fully and splendidly manifest in Lord Narayana, who is the master of the spiritual sky, and whose form is perfectly spiritual.  When the next five opulences are excluded, the remaining fifty-five opulences are present in Lord Siva and other exalted demigods.  Drops of the remaining fifty opulences may be seen in the individual spirit souls.  Siva, Brahma, Surya, Ganesa, and Indra are partial expansions of the Lord.  Given jurisdiction to rule over certain affairs of the Lord's opulences.  Still, they are individual souls, servants of the Supreme Lord.  By their mercy many people attained pure devotional service.  They are rulers over the conditioned souls, and that is why they are objects of worship in the material world.  The worship of them gradually leads to worship of the Supreme Lord.  If they give to certain souls the gift of pure devotional service to Lord Krsna, those souls consider them spiritual masters and worship them eternally.  Lord Siva, who is filled with devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is considered non-different from the Supreme Lord Himself.  That is why people addicted to the ideas of impersonalism take shelter of Him and consider Him the highest form of the Supreme.

Chapter Fourteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya-prayojana (Prameyantar-gata Sakti-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya, and Prayojana (The Lord's Potencies)
	When he thought of what he heard the previous night from the elderly babaji, Vrajanatha became filled with bliss.  He thought, "Ah!  The teachings of Lord Gauranga are wonderful!  When I hear them my heart becomes filled with nectar.  When I hear them from the saintly babaji's mouth, my thirst to hear them increases more and more.  No part of them seems illogical.  They seem to be supported by the scriptures.  I cannot understand why the brahmanas criticise them.  I think they criticise because they are impersonalists.  Thinking in this way, Vrajanatha came to Raghunatha dasa Babaji's cottage.  Seeing the saintly babaji, Vrajanatha offered dandavat obeisances.  The saintly babaji happily embraced him and made him sit down next to him.  With an earnest heart he said, "O master, I wish to hear the third verse of the Dasa-mula.  Please kindly recite it.  The hairs of his body upright with spiritual happiness, the saintly babaji recited:
	"Glory to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is never touched by material changes.  He is not different from His spiritual potency.  He is situated in His own transcendental glory.  From Him are manifested His spiritual potency by which all His desires are fulfilled, His potency of the individual spirit souls, and His potency of inanimate matter."
	Vrajanatha: The brahmanas say that when the Supreme is the impersonal Brahman He has no potency.  It is only when He appears as the Supreme Controller that He has potencies.  What do the Vedas teach about this?
	Babaji: In every feature of the Lord His potencies are manifested.  The Vedas (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8) declare:
	"He does not possess bodily form like that of an ordinary living entity.  There is no differences between His body and His soul.  He is absolute.  All His senses are transcendental.  Any one of His senses can perform the function of any other sense.  Therefore, no one is greater than Him or equal to Him.  His potencies are multifarious, and thus His deeds are automatically performed as a natural sequence."*
	The Lord's iccha-sakti, the potency that fulfils all His desires, is described in these words (Svetasvatara Upanisad 1.3):
	"Rapt in meditation, the sages then saw the mysterious potency and transcendental qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the first cause, who alone dominates the secondary causes, from time to the individual living entity."
	The Lord's jiva-sakti, the potency that is the individual spirit souls, described in these words (Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.5):
	"An unborn man enjoys an unborn red, white and black woman who bears many children like herself.  Another unborn man first enjoys and then forsakes her."
	(Translator's Note: The unborn woman is the material nature.  The colours red, white and black are the modes of passion, goodness and ignorance.  The many children are the ingredients of the material universes.  The first unborn man is the conditioned soul.  The second unborn man is the soul who, after trying to enjoy matter, finally renounces the world and attains liberation).
	The Lord's maya-sakti, the potency that is the material world, is described in these words (Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.9):
	"The Vedas describe a bewildering variety of hymns, prayers, sacrifices, rituals, vows, austerities, history and predictions of the future.  Simply by studying the Vedas, it is very difficult for the conditioned soul, illusioned by maya and trapped in the material world, to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the controller of the illusory potency and the creator of the material universes."*
	The words 'parasya saktih' (in Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8) indicate that of all the Lord's potencies one is the most important.  The Vedas never say that the Supreme has a feature without potencies.  When He has qualities, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  When He has no qualities, He is the impersonal Brahman.  It is the Lord's most important potency that manifests His feature as impersonal Brahman.  In this way it is seen that the impersonal Brahman does indeed have a potency.  That most important potency has been described in the Vedas in many places, where it is called by many names, such as 'para sakti', 'svarupa-sakti', and 'cit-sakti'.  The impersonalists imagine that the impersonal Brahman has no potencies.  The truth is that the impersonal Brahman is beyond the understanding of the impersonalists.  The Vedas affirm that the Supreme has two features, one with qualities and the other without qualities.  That the impersonal feature of the Lord has potencies is explained in these words of the Vedas said (Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.1):
	"Although he has no qualities, by His potencies the Supreme created the great variety of the material world."
	That the personal feature of the Lord has potencies is explained in these words of the Vedas (Svetasvatara Upanisad 3.1):
	"Employing His potencies, the Supreme Person created the material world."
	In this way you can see that the Supreme is never bereft of His potencies.  The self-manifest Supreme Lord is always accompanied by them.  The self-manifest Lord who is the master of three eternal potencies is described in this mantra of the Vedas (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.16):
	"The Supreme Lord, the creator of this cosmic manifestation, knows every nook and corner of this creation.  Although He is the cause of creation, there is no cause for His appearance.  He is fully aware of everything.  He is the Supersoul, the master of all transcendental qualities, and He is the master of this cosmic manifestation in regard to bondage to the conditional state of material existence and liberation from that bondage."*
	The three potencies of the Lord are described in this verse.  Here the word 'pradhana' refers to the Lord's maya-sakti, the word 'ksetrajna' refers to the potency of the individual spirit souls, and the word 'ksetrajna-pati' refers to the Lord's spiritual potency.  The idea that when the Supreme manifests His impersonal feature He has no potencies, and when He manifests His personal feature He has potencies is an idea created in the fertile workshop of the impersonalists' imaginations.  In truth the Lord is always the master of all potencies.  When the Lord is situated in His own glory, and when His original, natural condition is manifest, in other words, when He is manifested as the Supreme Person, He is always accompanied by His potencies.  Thus His desires are always fulfilled.
	Vrajanatha: If He is always accompanied by His potencies, and if everything is done by His potencies, then How is He independent, and how is it that His desires are always fulfilled?
	Babaji: In the scriptures it is said:
	"The potencies and the master of potencies are not different."
	The potencies thus do whatever the master of potencies desires.  The duty of the maya-sakti is to manifest the material universe.  The duty of the jiva-sakti is to manifest the many individual spirit souls.  The duty of the cit-sakti is to manifest the spiritual world.  After assigning these different duties to the cit-sakti, jiva-sakti and maya-sakti, the Supreme Lord steps back, untouched and unchanged.  If these actions are performed because of His desire, how can He remain aloof and unconcerned?  If He desires that certain things be done, he will certainly be affected by the result.
	Vrajanatha: When the scriptures say the Lord is not affected, the meaning is that the Lord never undergoes any material changes.  His material potency is a reflection of His internal, spiritual potency.  Whatever the material potency maya does may be real, but it does not exist eternally.  The changes that maya produces do not last eternally.  Whatever changes the Lord may manifest in His desires of in His pastimes are all manifested by His spiritual potency, cit-sakti.  These changes are manifestations of His spiritual love, and therefore they are free of any fault or impurity.  They are included within spiritual knowledge.  Although it is by His wish that the maya-sakti creates the material world, the Supreme Lord remains perfectly spiritual in His nature.  In the great varieties created by His spiritual potency, cit-sakti, there is no touch of matter, or maya.  When they hear the descriptions of  the great variety manifested by the Lord's spiritual potency, ordinary people, whose intelligence cannot conceive of anything beyond matter, assume that those descriptions must be descriptions of material things.  Thus they are like people who, suffering from jaundice, see everything is yellow, or they are like people who, standing in the shadow of a cloud cannot see the sun.  The root meanings is this: The material potency is a reflection of the spiritual potency.  Therefore the variety manifested in the material world is a reflection of the variety manifested in the spiritual world.  To one who looks superficially they seem to be the same.  However, the truth is that they are exact opposites.  A mirror's reflection of a man's body seems just like the original body.  However, the position of all the various limbs is inverted in the reflection.  In the reflection the right hand is on the left and the left hand is on the right.  Therefore, material eyes see the varieties of the spiritual and material worlds to be the same, although to spiritual eyes see that they are indeed opposites.  Actually the material variety is a perverted reflection of the spiritual variety.  Superficially they seem the same, but in truth they are different.  Free from material changes, and His every desire at once fulfilled, the Supreme Personality of Godhead controls the material potency, maya and gives her various tasks to fulfil.
	Babaji: Which of Lord Krsna's potencies is Sri Radhika?
	Vrajanatha: Lord Krsna is the master of potencies in His perfect, original form.  Srimati Radhika is the potency in its perfect, original form.  Srimati Radhika is the original manifestation of the Lord's internal, spiritual potency.  As musk is not different from its fragrance, and as fire is not different from its power to burn, so Radha and Krsna, who enjoy the nectar of transcendental pastimes together, are eternally different and not different from each other.  From the internal potency, Sri Radha, are manifested the three potencies 'cit-sakti' (spirit), 'jiva-sakti' (the individual souls), and 'maya-sakti' (matter).  These three are seen to be three different kinds of kriya-sakti (potency of action).  The cit-sakti is also called 'antaranga-sakti', and the jiva sakti is also called 'tatastha-sakti'.  The maya-sakti is also called 'bahiranga-sakti'.  Although it is one, the Lord's internal potency assumes these three forms in order to act in these different ways.  All the eternal opulences of the internal potency are fully manifested in the cit-sakti.  An atomic fragment of each of these opulences is present in the jiva-sakti, and a perverted reflection of them is present in the maya-sakti.  The internal potency is also manifested in three other ways.  These three manifestations are called: 1. hladini, 2. sandhini, and 3. samvit.  They are described in these words of the Dasa-mula:
	"Glory to Lord Sri Krsna, who enjoys nectar pastimes in Vraja, who plays in a nectar ocean of transcendental mellows, who enjoys the feelings of ecstatic love brought by the Hladini-sakti, who tastes the nectar of the confidential love brought by the samvit-sakti, and who resides in the pure transcendental abode created by the sandhini-sakti."
	Thus the Lord's internal potency manifests three features: 1. hladini, 2. sandhini and 3. samvit. The hladini-sakti which in its complete form is Sri Radha, the daughter of Vrsabhanu, brings transcendental bliss to Lord Krsna.  The form of the highest ecstatic love (maha-bhava), is the very dear and pleasing to Lord Krsna.  She expands into many other forms.  She expands as the eight principal gopis (asta-sakhi), the dear gopis (priya-sakhi), the gopis speaking joking words (narma-sakhi), the gopis more dear than life (prana-sakhi), and the most dear gopis (parama-prestha-sakhi).  These four kinds of gopis are manifested for different kinds of devotional service.  These gopis are eternally-perfect souls who reside in the spiritual world of Vraja.  The samvit-sakti manifests the different relationships of the people of Vraja.  The sandhini-sakti manifests the land, water, villages, forests, hills like Govardhana Hill, pastime-places of Sri Krsna, Sri Radha, Their gopa and gopi friends, Their servants, the cows, and all the other residents of Vraja, their spiritual forms, and the paraphernalia used in their pastimes.  Pushed by the feelings of ecstatic love brought by the hladini-sakti, Lord Krsna is always filled with transcendental bliss.  The activities of love are brought by the samvit-sakti, activities like Lord Krsna attracting the gopis by playing on the flute, His herding the cows, and His rasa-dance pastimes.  To perform all these activities, Lord Krsna takes shelter of His samvit-sakti.  Always swimming in the nectar of transcendental mellows, Lord Krsna enjoys pastimes in the land of Vraja, a land manifested by the sandhini-sakti.  Of all spiritual abodes, the land of Vraja is the best.
	Vrajanatha: You have said that the internal potency is manifested as the hladini-samvit, and sandhini potencies.  A tiny fragment of the internal potency is the jiva-sakti and a perverted reflection of the internal potency is the maya-sakti.  Please tell me how the hladini, samvit and sandhini potencies work in the jiva-sakti and maya-sakti.
	Babaji: In the jiva-sakti, which is an atomic fragment of the internal potency, a fragmental part of these three potencies is present.  There the hladini-sakti is manifested as the eternal bliss of the impersonal Brahman, the samvit-sakti is manifested as the individual soul's awareness of impersonal Brahman, and the sandhini-sakti is manifested as the atomic spiritual forms of the spirit souls.  You wished to know about the individual spirit souls.  That is how you should understand them.  In the maya-sakti, the hladini-sakti is manifested as material happiness, the samvit-sakti is manifested as material knowledge, and the sandhini-sakti is manifested as the fourteen material worlds and the external material bodies of the conditioned souls.
	Vrajanatha: If their activities are so easily explained, why are the Lord's potencies called 'inconceivable'?
	Babaji: When they are considered one by one, each feature is easily understood.  However, when all the features are considered together, they are beyond understanding.  In the material world mutually contradictory qualities do not exist together in the same place, for they would negate each other.  It is the inconceivable nature of Lord Krsna's potency that in the spiritual world all mutually contradictory qualities exist happily together and the result is very beautiful and pleasing.  In Lord Krsna the qualities of having a form and being formless, being all-pervading and having a form present in one place only, being active and inactive, being unborn and being the son of Nanda, being the all-worshipable Supreme Lord and being a gopa boy, being all-knowing and having the limited knowledge possessed by a human being, having qualities and having no qualities, being beyond conception and being sweet like nectar, being limited and unlimited, being far away and very near, being completely aloof and also being afraid of the gopis' jealous anger are simultaneously present.  These numberless other mutually contradictory qualities happily stay together in Lord Krsna's transcendental form, in Sri Krsna's transcendental abode, and in Sri Krsna's transcendental pastimes.  That these mutually contradictory qualities help Lord Krsna's pastimes, making them more beautiful and pleasing is beyond human conception.  Therefore it is said that the Lord's potencies are inconceivable.
	Vrajanatha: Is this idea supported by the Vedas?
	Babaji: This is accepted everywhere in the Vedas.  In the Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.19) it is said:
	"Learned transcendentalists explain that God is the greatest, the original person.  He has no material hands, but He can take anything.  He has no material legs, but He can travel faster than anyone.  He has no material eyes, but He sees everything.  He has no material ears, but He hears everything.  He knows everything, but no one knows Him."*
	In the Isa Upanisad (mantras 5 and 8) it is said:
	"The Supreme Lord walks and does not walk.  He is far away, but He is very near as well.  He is within everything, but yet He is outside of everything."*
	"Such a person must factually know the greatest of all, who is unembodied, omniscient, beyond reproach, without veins, pure, and uncontaminated, the self-sufficient philosopher, who has been fulfilling everyone's desires since time immemorial."*
	Vrajanatha: Is it written in the Vedas that  by His own will the Supreme Lord sometimes descends to the material world?
	Babaji: Yes.  In many places.  In the Kena Upanisad, in a conversation of Siva and Uma, it is said that Indra and the demigods became very proud because they had conquered the demons.  As the demigods were telling each other how wonderful they were, the Supreme Lord assumed a wonderful form and appeared among them, asked them why they were so proud, and gave them a single blade of grass to burn up with their own power.  In this way the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has wonderful powers, manifested His form among the demigods.  An example of a mantra from that passage is (Kena Upanisad 3.6):
	"Placing a blade of grass before him, the Supreme Lord said: 'Burn this.'  With all his power, Agni attacked the blade of grass, but could not burn it.  Returning to the demigods, Agni said: 'I do not know who this yaksa is'."
	The hidden meaning of this passage is that the Supreme Lord is a person with an inconceivably handsome form, and who His own will he descends to the material world and enjoys pastimes with the individual spirit souls.
	Vrajanatha: It is said that the Supreme Lord is an ocean of the nectar of transcendental mellows, where is this said in the Vedas?
	Babaji: In Taittiriya Upanisad (2.1) it is clearly said:
	"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the reservoir of transcendental mellows.  When one understands the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the reservoir of pleasure, Krsna, he actually becomes transcendentally blissful.*  Who could breathe without the Lord giving breath?  Who could be happy without the Lord giving happiness.  It is He who gives transcendental bliss."
	Vrajanatha: If He has a form of the nectar of bliss, why can the people of the material world not see Him?
	Babaji: The individual souls imprisoned in the material world are of two kinds.  One faces Krsna and the other turns his back on Krsna.  The soul that turns away from Krsna cannot see Krsna's handsomeness.  Instead he gazes on material sense objects and fixes his mind in thinking of material sense objects.  The soul that turns toward Krsna turns away from the material world of maya.  He is able to see the form of Lord Krsna.  In that Katha Upanisad (2.1.1) it is said:
	"A person eager for material pleasures cannot see the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart.  Only a wise man who turns from the world of matter can see the Lord within his heart."
	Vrajanatha: The Vedas say that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is 'raso vai sah' (the reservoir of spiritual nectar).  How do the Vedas describe the Lord's nectar spiritual form?  
	Babaji: In the Gopala-tapani Upanisad (1.10) it is said:
	"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is a cowherd boy.  His eyes are handsome lotus flowers, His complexion a dark monsoon cloud, and His garments lightning.  He has two arms.  He is rich in transcendental knowledge.  He wears a garland of forest flowers."
	Vrajanatha: From this I can understand that the form of Lord Krsna is the eternal spiritual form of the Lord in the spiritual world.  He is the form of spiritual nectar, He is the shelter of all.  He is not attained by impersonal speculation or any other non-devotional means.  They who follow the path of astanga-yoga search after the Supersoul, who is His plenary portion.  The impersonal Brahman is the effulgence of His transcendental body.  He is endowed with all spiritual qualities.  He is the highest object of worship in the world.  He is not easy to see.  He is beyond conception.  What method may a human being adopt to understand Him?  The brahmanas cannot understand Him and neither can the candalas understand Him.  What method should one adopt to understand Him?  It is very difficult to know how to please Him.
	Babaji: In the Katha Upanisad (2.2.13) it is said:
	"Only saintly persons who can see, within and without, the same Supreme Lord, can actually attain to perfect and eternal peace."*
	Vrajanatha: They who can see the Supreme Lord within their hearts attain eternal peace.  However, what method should one adopt to see the Lord in this way?  That's what I would like to see.  That's what I don't understand.
	Babaji: In the Katha Upanisad (1.2.23) it is also said:
	"The Supreme Lord is not attained by expert explanations, by vast intelligence, nor even by much hearing.  He is attained only by one who He Himself chooses.  To such a person He manifests His own form."*
	In Srimad Bhagavatam (10.14.28) it is said:
	"My Lord, if one is favoured by even a slight trace of the mercy of Your lotus feet, he can understand the greatness of Your personality.  But those who speculate in order to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead are unable to know You, even though they continue to study the Vedas for many years."*
	O baba, our Lord is very merciful.  The Lord of our hearts is Sri Krsna.  Simply by studying and understanding the scriptures one does not attain Him.  Simply by being very intelligent or studying from many teachers one does not attain Him.  Only to one who says, "Krsna is my Lord," does Lord Krsna mercifully reveal His eternal spiritual form of knowledge and bliss.  Think about this and you will easily understand it.
	Vrajanatha: Is anything written in the Vedas about Lord Krsna's spiritual abode?
	Babaji: It is described in many places.  In some places it is called 'para-vyoma' (the spiritual sky), in other places 'samvyoma' (the great sky), in other places 'brahma-gopala-puri' (the city of Lord Gopala), and in other places 'gokula' (the world of the surabhi cows).  It is described in these words of the Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.8):
	"In the eternal spiritual sky the demigods and the Vedic hymns serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  What will he who does not know Him do with the Vedic hymns?  They who know Him have attained the goal of life."
	In the Mundaka Upanisad (2.2.1) it is said:
	"The Supreme Personality of Godhead stays in the effulgent spiritual world."
	In the Purusa-bodhini-sruti it is said:
	"In the spiritual world named Gokula, in the circle of Mathura, the Supreme Personality of Godhead stays, with Radha and Candravali at His sides."
	In the Gopala-tapani Upanisad it is said:
	"In the spiritual sky is the city of Lord Gopala."
	Vrajanatha: Tantrika brahmanas say that the potency of Lord Siva is the 'adya sakti' (original potency).  Why do they say that?
	Babaji: The potency of Lord Siva is the maya-sakti.  From maya the three material modes: goodness, passion and ignorance are manifested.  The brahmanas are in the mode of goodness.  They purely worship Goddess Maya, who is the origin of material goodness.  They who are in the mode of passion worship Goddess Maya as the mother of the mode of passion.  They who have taken shelter of the mode of ignorance worship Maya as Goddess Vidya, the controller of the mode of blinding darkness.  In truth, Maya is a transformation of the potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  Maya is not a separate potency.  Maya is a shadow or a reflection of the Supreme Lord's original spiritual potency.  Maya imprisons the conditioned souls and she also sets them free.  Persons averse to Lord Krsna she imprisons in the material world and punishes.  Persons who are favourably inclined to Lord Krsna she places in the mode of goodness and gives knowledge of Lord Krsna.  Persons shackled and imprisoned by Maya cannot see that Maya herself is a reflection of the Supreme Lord's original potency.  It is these persons who claim that Maya is the 'adya sakti' (original potency).  A person bewildered by Maya may reach the right conclusion if he has performed many pious deeds.  One who has not performed pious deeds will not.
	Vrajanatha: Among the servants of Lord Krsna in Gokula is mentioned someone named "Durga-devi".  Who is that "Durga"?
	Babaji: She is Yogamaya.  She is the seed that grows into the changed forms accepted by the cit-sakti (spiritual potency).  She stays in the spiritual world, and there she is considered identical with the Lord's internal potency.  It is by her power that the Lord's spiritual potency is reflected as the material potency maya.  The Durga of the material world is a maidservant of her, Yogamaya, who is the Durga of the spiritual world.  This spiritual Durga assists in Lord Krsna's spiritual pastimes.  Manifested as Yogamaya, in the spiritual world she makes the nectar of Lord Krsna's pastimes by convincing the gopis that they are married to others and Krsna is their paramour (parakiya-bhava).  She also arranges for the Lord's rasa-lila pastimes.  This is described in these words of Srimad Bhagavatam (10.29.10):
	"Taking shelter of His Yogamaya potency, Lord Krsna enjoyed the rasa dance."
	The meaning of these statements is this: Among the many spiritual pastimes arranged by the Lord's internal potency are some activities that seem to be situated in ignorance, although in truth they are not situated in ignorance at all.  When these activities that superficially appear to be situated in ignorance are useful to make the nectar of Lord Krsna's pastimes sweeter, Yogamaya arranges that they are manifested.  In this way the nectar of the Lord's pastime is understood.
	Vrajanatha: I wish to understand something about the spiritual abode (dhama) of the Lord.  Please be kind and explain this to me: Why do the Vaisnavas use the word 'sridhama' in relation to Navadvipa?
	Babaji: Sri Navadvipa-dhama and Sri Vrndavana-dhama are not different.  This Mayapura is the highest spiritual abode.  Sri Mayapura is to Navadvipa what Sri Gokula is to Vraja.  Mayapura is the holiest place in Navadvipa.  In Srimad Bhagavatam (7.9.38) it is said:
	"O Lord, in the age of Kali, however, You do not assert Yourself.*  In that age Your incarnation is hidden."
	As the Supreme Lord's incarnation is hidden in the Kali-yuga, so the Supreme Lord's abode, Sri Navadvipa, is also hidden.  In the age of Kali there is no holy place like Sri Navadvipa.  A person who understands the spiritual nature of Sri Navadvipa has become qualified to reside in the spiritual world of Vraja.  Material eyes see Vraja and Navadvipa are both material places, made of the five material elements.  Only persons who have become fortunate to have their spiritual eyes opened are able to see the truth of these holy abodes.
	Vrajanatha: I wish to know the truth about Sri Navadvipa-dhama.
	Babaji: "Goloka", "Vrndavana", and "Svetadvipa" are the names of the innermost places in the spiritual world.  In Goloka the Lord's svakiya pastimes are manifested, in Vrndavana the parakiya pastimes are manifested, and in Svetadvipa other pastimes are manifested.  Gokula, Vrndavana, and Svetadvipa are not different in nature.  Sri Navadvipa is therefore not different from Svetadvipa and Vrndavana.  The residents of Sri Navadvipa are most fortunate - They are the eternal associates of Lord Gauranga.  It is because in past lives they performed many pious deeds that now they are able to reside in Sri Navadvipa.  The transcendental mellows (rasa) that were not revelled in Sri Vrndavana have been revealed in Sri Navadvipa.  When a person becomes qualified, he is able to taste the sweetness of those mellows.
	Vrajanatha: What is the size of Navadvipa-dhama?
	Babaji: The circumference of Sri Navadvipa is sixteen krosas (32 miles).  The holy abode of Navadvipa is an eight-petal lotus flower.  Eight of the dvipas form the eight petals, and the island in the middle is the whorl of the lotus.  The eight islands that are petals of the lotus are: Simantadvipa, Godrumadvipa, Madhyadvipa, Koladvipa, Rtudvipa, Jahndvipa, Modadrumadvipa and Rudradvipa.  The whorl in the middle of the lotus is Antardvipa.  In the middle of Antardvipa is Sri Mayapura.  A soul who performs sadhana-bhakti (devotional service in practice) in Navadvipa-dhama, or especially in Sri Mayapura, quickly attains the perfection of prema (pure love of God).  In the centre of Sri Navadvipa is the very holy place of Sri Jaganatha Misra's home.  The most fortunate devotees are able to see Lord Gaurangadeva enjoying His eternal pastimes in this holy place.
	Vrajanatha: Does the Lord's internal potency arrange for Lord Gaurangadeva's pastimes?
	Babaji: As Sri Krsna's pastimes are arranged by the internal potency, so Lord Gauranga's pastimes are arranged in the same way.  There is not the slightest difference between Lord Krsna and Lord Gauranga.  In his notebook, Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami explains (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.5):
	"The loving affairs of Sri Radha and Krsna are transcendental manifestations of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving potency.  Although Radha and Krsna are one in Their identity, They separated Themselves eternally.  Now these two transcendental identities have again united in the form of Sri Krsna Caitanya.  I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Srimati Radharani although He is Krsna Himself."*
	Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya are both manifested eternally.  No one has the power to say which of Them came first and which second.  It cannot be said that Lord Caitanya was manifested first and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna were manifested second.  Neither can it be said that Sri Sri Radha-Krsna were manifested first and Lord Caitanya was manifested second.  The truth is that Lord Caitanya and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna both exist eternally.  All the pastimes of the Supreme are eternal.  A person who thinks that of the pastimes of Lord Caitanya and the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, the pastimes of one is more important and the pastimes of the other is less important, does not understand the truth.  He does not understand the nectar of the Lord's pastimes.
	Vrajanatha: If Sri Gauranga is the original form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then how should one worship Him?
	Babaji: As one worships Lord Krsna by chanting the names and mantras of Lord Krsna, so one should worship Lord Gaura by chanting the names and mantras of Lord Gauranga.  One may worship Lord Gaura by chanting Krsna-mantras, or for that matter one  may worship Lord Krsna by chanting Gaura-mantras.  They are all the same.  Anyone who thinks Lord Krsna and Lord Gaura are different is a fool.  He is a servant of Kali-yuga.
	Vrajanatha: If Lord Caitanya is the hidden (channa) incarnation described in the Seventh Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, how are there any mantras to worship Him?
	Babaji: The Tantras that openly give mantras for worshipping the openly manifested incarnations of the Lord secretly reveal the mantras for worshipping the secret, hidden incarnation of the Lord.  People whose intelligence is not crooked can understand the presence of these mantras.
	Vrajanatha: How does one worship the Divine Couple, Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, while one is engaged in worshipping Lord Gauranga?
	Babaji: There are two ways one may worship the Divine Couple, Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, while one is engaged in worshipping Lord Gauranga.  These two ways are: 1. arcana-marga (Deity worship) and 2. bhajana-marga (the practices of devotional service).  In the path of arcana-marga one worships Gaura-Visnupriya, and in the path of bhajana-marga one worships Gaura-Gadadhara.
	Vrajanatha: Which potency of Lord Gauranga is Sri Visnupriya?
	Babaji: Generally the devotees say she is the Lord's Bhu-sakti.  But the truth is that she is samvit-sakti accompanied by the essence of the hladini-sakti.  This means that she is the Goddess of Devotion, Bhakti-devi and during Lord Gauranga's advent she comes to help Him preach the glories of the holy name.  As the nine islands of Sri Navadvipa-dhama embody the nine kinds of devotional service, so Srimati Visnupriya is also the nine kinds of devotional service personified.
	Vrajanatha: Can it be said, then, that Sri Visnupriya is the Lord's internal potency?
	Babaji: How can there be any doubt?  Is not the internal potency (svarupa-sakti) the same as the samvit-sakti accompanied by the essence of the hladini-sakti?
	Vrajanatha: O master, soon I will learn the proper way to worship Lord Gaura, but now a question has entered my mind.  The cit-sakti, jiva-sakti, and maya-sakti are manifested from the Lord's internal potency (svarupa-sakti), and the hladini-sakti, samvit-sakti, and sandhini-sakti are also manifested from the internal potency.  All that is done is apparently done by the Lord's potencies.  The spiritual world, spiritual bodies, spiritual relationships, and spiritual pastimes are all manifested by the Lord's potencies.  Does Lord Krsna, the master of all these potencies, do anything Himself?
	Babaji: That is a difficult question.  Are you trying to attack an old man with arrows of logical puzzles?  The question is simple, and it has a simple answer.  Still, it is hard to find a person qualified to understand the simple answer to this question.  I will speak.  You please try to understand my words.  Lord Krsna's name, forms, qualities, and pastimes are all manifested by His potencies.  Still, Krsna's supreme independence and His desires are not manifested by His potencies.  They are part of His nature.  They are manifested by the Supreme Personality of Godhead alone.  Lord Krsna can do anything He wishes.  He is the shelter of His potencies.  Krsna is the enjoyer.  His potencies are enjoyed by Him.  Krsna is independent.  His potencies are dependent on Him.  At every turn the independent Supreme Personality of Godhead is surrounded by His potencies.  Still, He remains always perfect and always independent.  Although He is always surrounded by His potencies, He is also always their master.  When human beings understand the Supreme they must do it through the aid of the Lord's potencies.  Therefore it is hard for them to understand that the Supreme Lord is the master of all potencies, and He is actually beyond the influence of His potencies.  However, a devotee who has attained love (prema) for the Lord can directly see that the Supreme Lord is the master of all potencies and is beyond their influence.  Devotional service (bhakti) is one of the Lord's potencies, and therefore is feminine in nature.  Following the Lord's internal potency, the potency of devotional service can bring one to the position where one can directly perceive the masculine nature of Sri Krsna, the independent, self-willed supreme male.
	Vrajanatha: If there is a being beyond the influence of the potencies, that being must be the impersonal Brahman described in the Upanisads.
	Babaji: The impersonal Brahman described in the Upanisads has no desires.  The 'purusa' described in the Upanisads is Lord Krsna, the supreme male.  He is filled with desires.  These two are different in many ways.  Impersonal Brahman has no qualities.  Krsna, completely independent of His potencies, has a host of qualities.  They are part of His character as the supreme male, the supreme enjoyer, and the supreme independent being.  In truth, Krsna and His potencies are not different.  The potency that allows us to see Krsna is also Krsna Himself.  Why not?  Sri Radha is the most exalted potency.  She serves Krsna and Krsna also serves Her.  They worship each other, and in this way they are different from each other.
	Vrajanatha: If the fact that Krsna has desires and enjoyments are proof of His masculine nature, then how is it that Radha has desires and still a feminine nature?
	Babaji: Srimati Radha's desires are subordinate to Krsna's desires.  She never desires anything or does anything that has no relationship with Krsna.  That is Radha's desire.  Radha is the purna-sakti (complete potency) or adya-sakti (original potency).  Krsna is the supreme male.  He is the master and controller of His potency.
	At this point in their conversation, Vrajanatha took permission to depart.  After offering dandavat obeisances to the saintly babaji, Vrajanatha happily returned to his home in Bilva-puskarini.  Seeing that day by day he was changing, his grandmother said that it was time for him to get married.  Vrajanatha would not listen to her.  Day and night he thought about what the saintly babaji was teaching him.  Thinking, "These teachings are very pleasing to my heart.  Now I will hear more teachings, teachings sweet like nectar," he happily went to Srivasa's courtyard.

Chapter Fifteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya Prayojana (Prameyantargata jiva-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana (The Individual Spirit Souls)
	This day Vrajanatha came a little too early to Srivasa's courtyard.  The devotees living in Sri Godruma had come to Srivasa's courtyard to see the evening arati.  Paramahamsa Babaji Sri Prema dasa, Vaisnava dasa, Advaita dasa and all the other devotees had already entered the temple to see the arati.  Seeing the residents of Sri Godruma, Vrajanatha thought, "Now I have their association.  My life is now a great success."  Seeing humble, devoted, smiling Vrajanatha, everyone gave him their blessings.  When after a short time they left, going south to return to Sri Godruma, the saintly elderly babaji noticed that tears were streaming from Vrajanatha's eyes.  Saintly Raghunatha dasa Babaji had by this time developed strong affection for Vrajanatha.  He asked Vrajanatha, "Baba, why are you weeping?"  Vrajanatha humbly replied, "O master, your teachings and association has brought an upheaval in my thoughts.  Now my heart understands how worthless the material world is.  My heart yearns to take shelter of Lord Gaura's feet.  In my mind there is one question: Who am I in reality, and why do I live in the material world?
	Babaji: Good.  With this question you have made me fortunate.  When his auspicious day comes, a soul places this question before all others.  When you hear the fifth verse of Dasa-mula and its explanation, doubts will no longer live in your heart.
	"As sparks fly from a blazing fire, or rays of light fly from the sun, so the individual spirit souls come from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Hari.  As the sparks and rays of light are at once different and not different from their source, so the individual souls are different and not different from Lord Hari.  Lord Hari is the supreme controller.  He is the master of the material world.  The illusory potency maya is under His control.  The individual soul is not like Him.  Even when he is liberated, the soul is capable of coming under maya's control."
	Vrajanatha: That is a wonderful conclusion!  I wish to hear the evidence the Vedas give for it.  The words of the Supreme Lord (Bhagavad-gita) are worthy evidence by themselves.  However, when they are supported by the words of the Upanisads, they are more easily accepted by the people in general.
	Babaji: These truths are revealed in many passages of the Vedas.  I will recite one or two of them.  Please listen carefully.  In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (2.2.20 and 4.3.9) it is said:
	"As tiny sparks fly from a fire, so all individual souls have come from the Supreme."
	"A person has two places: the spiritual world and the place where the spiritual world meets another world.  There is also a third place, a place of dreams.  Standing between them, the soul sees on one side the spiritual world and on the other side the place of dreaming."
	This passage describes the individual soul's (jiva-sakti), which can reside in either the spiritual or material worlds (tatastha).  In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (4.3.18) it is also said:
	"As a large fish in a river may go to one shore or the other, so a person may go to one world or another.  He may go to a world where he is awake, or may go to a world made of dreams."
	Vrajanatha: How does the Vedanta philosophy define the word "tatastha?"
	Babaji: The place where a river's waters meet with the land of the shore is called the 'tata'.  The 'tata' is then the place where water meets the land.  What is the nature of this 'tata'?  It is like the thinnest of threads that runs along the boundary of land and water.  A 'tata' is like the finest of lines, so small that the gross material eyes cannot even see it .  In this example the spiritual world is like the water and the material world is like the land.  The thin line that separates them is the 'tata'.  That boundary place is the abode of the individual spirit souls.  The individual spirit souls are like atomic particles of sunlight.  The souls can see both the spiritual world and the material world created by Maya.  The Lord's spiritual potency, cit-sakti, is limitless, and the Lord's material potency, maya-sakti, is gigantic.  Standing between them, the individual spirit soul is very tiny.  The individual spirit souls are manifested from the tatastha-sakti of Lord Krsna.  Therefore the souls are naturally situated on the boundary (tatastha) of matter and spirit).
	Vrajanatha: What is this 'tatastha' nature of the individual souls?
	Babaji: Standing between them, the soul can see these two worlds.  The 'tatastha' nature of the souls refers to the fact that they must be under the control of one of these two potencies.  The actual place of the 'tata' (shore may change.  What was once dry land may be covered with water, and what was once covered by water may again become dry land.  If he turns his gaze upon Lord Krsna, the soul comes under the shelter of Lord Krsna's spiritual potency.  But if he turns away from Krsna and turns his gaze to the material potency, maya, then the soul is caught in maya's trap.  That is what is meant by 'the soul's tatastha nature'.
	Vrajanatha: Does maya have anything to do with the nature of the spirit souls?
	Babaji: No.  The spirit souls are completely spiritual.  However, because they are atomic in size, the souls are not very strong.  That is why maya can dominate them.  However, in the soul's nature there is not the slightest scent of maya.
	Vrajanatha: I heard from my teacher that when it is surrounded by maya, the impersonal brahman becomes the individual spirit soul.  When a small portion of the great sky is surrounded by the walls of a clay pot, it becomes the sky within a pot.  In the same when the impersonal Brahman is surrounded by Maya, it becomes the individual soul.  What does this mean?
	Babaji: That is just impersonalism (mayavada).  How can maya have the power to touch the Supreme Brahman?  If you say that Brahman has no potency, then how can maya even approach Brahman?  The maya potency has no independent power.  How can she have any effect on the Brahman?  It cannot be said that the great Brahman becomes covered by maya and is then forced to suffer in different ways.  That is not possible.  If Brahman's spiritual potency is always awake and vigilant, how can the insignificant maya-sakti defeat her and proceed to create the individual souls from Brahman in this way?  The Supreme Brahman is limitless and immeasurable.  How can the limitless Brahman be broken into smaller souls in the same way the great sky is broken into the little skies within a series of clay pots?  The idea that maya can have some effect on the Brahman cannot be accepted.  Maya has nothing to do with the creation of the individual spirit souls.  Although they are atomic in size, the individual spirit souls are superior to maya.
	Vrajanatha: At another time another teacher said that the individual spirit soul is a reflection of Brahman.  As the sun is reflected on the water, so the Supreme Brahman, reflected on maya, becomes the individual soul.  What does that mean?
	Babaji: That is also impersonalism.  Brahman has no limit.  Something that is unlimited cannot be reflected anywhere.  The Vedas do not teach that Brahman is limited.  This reflection-theory should be rejected.
	Vrajanatha: Another time a dig-vijayi sannyasi said that the individual spirit soul does not really exist.  The idea of the individual soul is only an illusion.  When the illusion is thrown far away, only the undivided Brahman remains.  What does that mean?
	Babaji: That is also impersonalism.  That idea has no root in the truth.  In the Chandogya Upanisad (6.2.1) it is said:
	"Brahman is one without a second."
	Do these words of the Vedas mean that only Brahman, and nothing else, exists?  If nothing but Brahman exists, then from where has this illusion come?  Whom does this illusion bewilder?  If you say this illusion bewilders Brahman, then you make Brahman a pathetic being.  If you say this illusion bewilders something other than Brahman, then you contradict the idea that only Brahman exists.
	Vrajanatha: Another time a brahmana pandita of Navadvipa said that only the individual soul exists.  In a dream he experiences material happiness and suffering.  When he wakes up from the dream, he discovers that he is Brahman.  What does this mean?
	Babaji: That is also impersonalism.  Brahman has a dream and becomes the individual soul?  What proof do they have for that?  The scriptures give the examples of mistaking the glittering on a seashell's surface for silver and mistaking a rope for a snake, but these examples do not prove the impersonalist idea that Brahman alone exists.  These words are only a great network of word-jugglery meant to bewilder the people in general.
	Vrajanatha: The individual soul is not created by maya.  That I accept.  Maya has the power to dominate the individual soul.  That I understand.  This is my question: Does the spiritual potency (cit-sakti) place the individual soul on the border (tatastha) of matter and spirit?
	Babaji: No.  The cit-sakti is the full manifestation of Lord Krsna's potency.  Whatever she creates is eternally perfect (nitya-siddha).  The individual spirit souls are not eternally perfect.  By engaging in the activities of devotional service (sadhana) they may become perfect (sadhana-siddha) and thus enjoy spiritual bliss exactly like that enjoyed by the eternally perfect (nitya-siddha) beings.  The four kinds of gopi-friends (sakhi) of Srimati Radharani are eternally perfect beings (nitya-siddha).  They are manifested from the form of Srimati Radharani, who is the cit-sakti Herself.  All the individual spirit souls are manifested from Lord Krsna's jiva-sakti.  The cit-sakti is Lord Krsna's complete potency (purna-sakti).  The individual souls (jiva-sakti) are counted among Lord Krsna's incomplete potencies (apurna-sakti).  From the complete potency complete and perfect things are manifested.  From the incomplete potency all the individual souls, who are atomic fragments of consciousness, are manifested.  Lord Krsna manifests different kinds of entities according to the different kinds of potencies He employs to create them.  When He is manifested in His cit-sakti, He appears as Krsna and as Narayana, the master of Vaikuntha.  When He is manifested in the jiva-sakti, He appears as Baladeva, His pastime form (vilasa-murti) in Vraja.  When He is manifested in the maya-sakti, He appears as the three forms of Karanodakasayi Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu and Ksirodakasayi Visnu.  In Vraja He appears in His original form, as Krsna, a form manifested by His complete potency.  Appearing as Baladeva, He manifests His sesa-tattva (nature of Lord Sesa).  In this way He manifests the eight kinds of services the eternally liberated associates offer to Him.  Again in Vaikuntha He appears as Sesa-Sankarsana and manifests the eight kinds of service His eternal associates offer to Lord Narayana.  Lord Sankarsana incarnates as Maha-Visnu.  He becomes the resting-place of the jiva-sakti and appears as the Supersoul in the hearts of all the individual souls residing in the material world.  All these individual souls are attracted to maya.  As long as they do not attain the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and take shelter of the Lord's spiritual hladini-sakti, they are defeated by Maya.  Numberless souls are defeated by Maya and cast into Her prison.  They are the followers of Maya's three modes.  The conclusion is this: the individual souls are manifested by the jiva-sakti.  They are not manifested by the cit-sakti.
	Vrajanatha: I have heard that the spiritual world is eternal and the individual spirit souls are also eternal.  How is it possible for eternal things to be born, created, or manifested?  If there was a time when they were not manifested and they only appear at a certain point in time, how can they be eternal?
	Babaji: The time and space present in the spiritual world is different from the time and space you experience now in the material world.  In the material world time has three phases: past, present and future.  In the spiritual world time is not broken in that way.  There time is an eternal present.  In the spiritual world things do not come into being.  Everything exists in an eternal present.  When we who living in the world of material time and space try to describe the spiritual world, we tend to say things like, "The individual souls were created," "the individual souls were imprisoned by Maya", "the spiritual world was manifested", and "the individual souls are spiritual and were not created by maya".  When we talk in these ways we certainly show how much we are influence by staying in this world of material time.  As long as we stay in Maya's prison we cannot avoid talking in this way.  That is why when we describe the individual souls or the nature of spirit we cannot avoid speaking in terms of material time.  Therefore we tend to speak in terms of past and future.  Therefore a person who tries to understand the spiritual world properly tries to speak in terms of an eternal present.  Baba, logic cannot help us understand these things.  Here logic should be rejected.  Then you will be able to see the nature of spirit.  When he forgets that he is eternally a servant of Lord Krsna, the individual soul enters Maya's prison.  Originally all souls are Vaisnavas.  However, they become two groups: 1. nitya-baddha (eternally imprisoned by Maya) and 2. nitya-mukta (eternally liberated).  A human being bewildered by matter cannot describe these things.  Still, a saintly devotee can attain the spiritual vision to see these spiritual truths directly.  My words are inevitably influenced by matter.  I will describe these things as far as I am able.  My words will inevitably be imperfect.  O baba, you will be able to see the pure spiritual truth.  However, logic will not help you.  Why will logic not help?  Because logic is useless in grasping what is beyond the mind's understanding.  I know you will not be able to understand this all at once.  Still, the more you follow the spiritual path the more you will be able to see the difference between matter and spirit.  Your body is material.  All the body's actions are material.  But the truth is that You yourself are not material.  You are a tiny particle of conscious spirit.  The more you understand that truth, the more you will be able to perceive your own identity and the truth that you are superior to the material world.  You will not understand this merely by hearing me tell you about it.  As you follow the path of regularly chanting the holy names of Lord Hari, these spiritual truths will gradually spontaneously appear before you.  Then you will understand the spiritual world.  As long as the mind and words are influenced by matter, try as one may one will not be able to touch the spiritual truth.  The Vedas (Taittiriya Upanisad 2.4.1.) explain:
	"The descriptive power of speech fails in the realm of the Absolute Truth and the speculative power of the mind cannot achieve Him."*
	My advice to you is: Don't ask anyone what they think of these conclusions.  Experience them yourself.  I can only give a hint about them.
	Vrajanatha: I say this:  If the individual souls are like sparks from a blazing fire or atomic particles of sunlight, then what is the function of the jiva-sakti potency?
	Babaji: Krsna is self-effulgent, like a blazing fire or the sun.  Krsna is like a blazing fire.  In the centre of the fire is the cit-sakti is present in fullness.  In addition to the centre there is also a great expanse illuminated by the fire.  The same way the Krsna-sun illumines a great area with sunlight.  The rays of sunlight are particles of His internal potency (svarupa sakti).  Those atomic particles that constitute those rays of sunlight are the individual spirit souls.  The internal potency (svarupa sakti) manifests the Krsna-sun planet itself.  The  sunlight emanating from that planet is manifested by the cit-sakti and the individual particles of light are manifested by the jiva-sakti.  Therefore the individual spirit souls are manifested by the jiva-sakti.  This is described in the following words of the Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.8):
	"The Lord's spiritual potency is manifested in many different ways."
	In this way the Lord's spiritual potency manifests the jiva-sakti-sunlight, which shines on the borderline (tata) of the spiritual and material worlds.  In this way the eternal individual spirit souls are manifested.
	Vrajanatha: A blazing fire is material, the sun is material, and sparks are material.  Why are material examples used here to describe the spiritual truth?
	Babaji: I have already explained that when we try to use material words to describe spiritual things, the faults of matter tend to slip into the description.  In this situation we have no choice but to use examples like the fire or the sun.  In truth, Lord Krsna is much greater than the sun.  Lord Krsna's circle of spiritual potencies is much greater than the circle of the sun's light.  Lord Krsna's effulgence is much greater than the sun's light.  In this case certain features that may be similar are considered, but in many other ways the two things being compared are not at all alike.  The sun and the sunlight are beautiful and glorious.  However, the sun is material and it also burns things to ashes, and has many other like qualities also.  These qualities are absent in the spiritual truth.  When we say that milk is like water, we mean that as water is a liquid, so milk is also a liquid.  We do not mean that milk and water are identical in all respects.  If that were so, why would we designate one thing as milk and another as water?  Therefore, when we use an example to describe something, the example shows a similarity in only one point.  The two things compared are not alike in everything.
	Vrajanatha: The individual soul-sunlight is simultaneously one and different from the Krsna-sun.  How is this possible?
	Babaji: In the material world when one thing is manifested from another, the thing manifested is either different from or identical with its source.  That is the nature of material things.  When an egg comes from a bird, the egg and bird are then distinct.  The egg does not remain a part of the bird.  As long as they are not cut off, the hair and nails of a human body remain part of it.  In the world of spirit the situation is different.  When they are emanated from the spiritual sun, the rays of spiritual sunlight remain simultaneously one and different from their source.  The rays of light and the atomic particles of which those rays are constituted are not different from the sun that is their origin.  In the same way the sunlight or the jiva-sakti and the atomic particles of which that sunlight is composed, which particles are the individual spirit souls, are not different from the Krsna-sun that is their origin.  In this way the individual spirit souls are not different from Lord Krsna.  However, the individual souls are all individual persons, and each of them has free-will.  In this way they are each eternally different from Lord Krsna.  In this way the individual spirit souls are simultaneously one and different from Lord Krsna.  This is so eternally.  In this way the nature of spirit is different from that of matter.  The panditas also give another example from the material world.  It is this: There is a large lump of gold, and from that lump a bracelet is fashioned.  Because it is gold, the bracelet is not different from the gold lump.  Still, because it is a bracelet, it is also different from the lump of gold.  The example here does not hold in all its details, but in one point it holds.  The Krsna-sun and the individual souls-sunlight are one in the sense that they are both spirit, but they are different in the sense that one is the complete spirit and the other is a tiny particle of spirit.  The impersonalists' example of the 'sky within the clay pot and the great sky expanded everywhere' does not properly explain the spiritual truth.
	Vrajanatha: If spirit and matter are different, then why are these examples used?
	Babaji: The nyaya philosophers like to divide the components of the material world into various categories, and then claim that these divisions are eternal.  Matter and spirit are not really different from each other in that way.  As I said before, matter is merely a perverted manifestation of spirit.  The perverted manifested and the original pure form from which it has come may share many similar features.  The perverted manifestation is certainly different from the original pure form, but still the two share many similarities.  Ice is a perverted manifestation of water.  Ice is different from water.  Still water and ice may both be cold and may share many other qualities also.  There may also be differences.  Cold and hot water do not share the quality of coldness.  However, they do share the quality of liquidity.  Therefore a perverted manifestation may have many qualities like those present in the pure manifestation that is its origin.  Because matter is a perverted manifestation of spirit, spirit and matter do have some similar qualities.  These similar qualities may provide material examples to describe spiritual things. Here the example of 'arundhati-darsana-nyaya' (showing the position of the star Arundhati in the sky by using an object on the earth as a point of reference.  In this way one may say, "If you look between these two branches of this tree, the star in the sky shining there is Arundhati") is appropriate.  In this way examples drawn from material things can be used to reveal spiritual truths.  Lord Krsna's pastimes are perfectly spiritual.  They have not even the slightest scent of matter. Lord Krsna's Vraja pastimes in Vraja, which are described in Srimad Bhagavatam are perfectly spiritual and not material.  When they are read to a circle of human hearers, they produce different results according to the qualifications of the different people hearing them.  When people very attached to matter hear these pastimes they enjoy the material poetic language and, as far as they are concerned, think they are hearing description of an ordinary romantic couple.  People of an intermediate qualification think in terms of the 'arundhati-darsana-nyaya'.  They think these pastimes are examples drawn from the material world to reveal spiritual truths.  Persons who are most qualified know that these pastimes are spiritual activities far beyond the realm of matter.  These persons dive into an ocean of nectar happiness to hear these pastimes.  Without speaking examples like these, how can one teach the people about the spiritual truth?  The material  mind and material words are defeated when they try to describe these things.  How will the souls imprisoned in the material world attain an auspicious life?  We do not see any way other than by speaking examples like the example of 'arundhati-darsana-nyaya'.  Material things are either one or different.  Spiritual things are not like that.  Lord Krsna, His jiva-sakti potency and the individual spirit souls manifested from that potency are all inconceivable.  You should accept that they are simultaneously one and different.
	Vrajanatha: In what ways are the individual spirit soul and the Supreme Personality of Godhead different?
	Babaji: First I will explain how the individual spirit soul and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are eternally one.  After that I will explain how They are eternally different.  The Supreme Personality of Godhead is consciousness, a knower, an enjoyer, a thinker, self-manifested, and visible to others.  He is also the knower of all fields of activity and He is full of desires.  The individual spirit soul is also consciousness, a knower, an enjoyer, a thinker, self-manifested, and visible to others.  He is also the knower of a field of activity and he is also full of desires.  Because He is the master of all potencies, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has these qualities to the highest degree.  On the other hand, the individual spirit soul, possessing only very slight power, has these qualities in a very slight degree.  Although they are different in the sense that one is perfect and complete and the other is very small and atomic, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit soul are alike in that They both possess these qualities.  The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the master of all potencies.  He is the controller of the svarupa-sakti (internal potency), jiva-sakti and maya-sakti.  These potencies are all His obedient maidservants.  He is their master.  Whatever He wishes, they do.  That is the nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  He is subordinate to the Lord's other potencies.  The word 'maya' is used in the Dasa-mula (in the verse quoted in the beginning of this chapter) to mean not only the Lord's material potency but also His internal potency (svarupa-sakti).  The dictionaries explain:
	"That which measures is called 'maya'."
	According to this explanation, the word 'maya' refers to the potency of Lord Krsna that manifests the spiritual world, the individual spirit souls, and the material world.  Understood in this way, the word 'maya' refers to the Lord's internal potency (svarupa-sakti), not to His material potency.  Lord Krsna is the master of this maya potency.  The individual spirit souls are under the control of the maya potency.  This is described in the following words of the Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.9-10):
	"It is very difficult for the conditioned soul, illusioned by maya and trapped in the material world, to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the controller of the illusory potency and the creator of the material universes.*
	"One should know that although maya (illusion) is false or temporary, the background of maya is the supreme magician, the Personality of Godhead, who is Mahesvara, the Supreme Controller."*
	In these verses the word 'mayi' refers to Lord Krsna, the controller of maya, and the word 'prakrti' refers to His complete potency.  This glorious quality (being the controller of maya) belongs to the Supreme Personality of Godhead alone.  The individual souls do not possess it.  Even the liberated souls cannot attain this quality.  In the Vedanta-sutra (4.4.17) it is said:
	"Even after he attains liberation, the individual soul does not have the power to create the material world."
	Therefore the conclusion of Vedanta-sutra is that the individual souls are eternally different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead.  The circle of the wise accept this conclusion.  This eternal difference is not an imagination.  It is eternally real.  The difference between the soul and the Lord will never be destroyed.  Therefore you should know that the statement "The individual spirit soul is eternally a servant of Lord Krsna" is one of the most important teachings of the scriptures.
	Vrajanatha: If they are eternally different, then how are they not different?  Should we accept the idea that when he attains nirvana, the soul becomes one with the Supreme?
	Babaji: Baba, it is  not like that.  At no time does the individual soul become non-different from the Supreme.
	Vrajanatha: Then why do you say that the soul is simultaneously one and different from the Lord?
	Babaji: In the sense that they are both spiritual in nature, Lord Krsna and the individual soul are eternally not different.  Otherwise, their natures are eternally different.  Their oneness is eternal and their difference is also eternal.  Their oneness does not refer to the other qualities of their natures.  In other qualities their difference is more prominent.  Therefore, if one says that a house is simultaneously "the property of Devadatta" and "without Devadatta's presence", then even though Devadatta may be absent, the idea that it remains his property is the more important of the two ideas.  Now I will give another material example.  The sky is a material thing.  If some portion of the sky is contained within a clay pot, the existence of the great sky outside the pot remains more important than the sky within the pot.  In the same way the eternal difference between the Supreme Lord and the individual spirit soul is more important than their oneness.
	Vrajanatha: Please describe the soul's eternal nature more clearly.
	Babaji: The individual spirit soul is an atomic fragment of consciousness.  He has knowledge.  He has ego, or a sense of self, and he calls himself by the word "I".  He is an enjoyer, and thinker, and a knower.  The soul has an eternal form.  That form is spiritual and subtle.  That form has hands, feet, eyes, nose, ears, and other limbs, all handsome and graceful, superficially like the limbs of an ordinary material body.  That body is made of a spiritual atom.  It is very handsome.  It is spiritual.  That is the eternal form of the individual spirit soul.  When the soul is imprisoned by Maya, the soul's original spiritual body is covered by two material bodies.  One of these bodies is called 'linga-sarira" (the subtle body) and the other is called 'sthula-sarira' (the gross body).  The linga-sarira covers the atomic spiritual form of the individual spirit soul.  From the time the soul is first imprisoned in the material world until the time he is released, the linga-sarira cannot be removed.  When the soul takes birth in another body, he enters a different sthula-sarira (gross body).  He does not enter a different linga-sarira.  He keeps the same linga-sarira.  The linga-sarira is one.  On the other hand, the soul periodically leaves one sthula-sarira and, impelled by his material desires, accepts another sthula-sarira.  Thus, following the path of the five fires described in the Vedas, the soul attains a new sthula-sarira.  These five fires, beginning with "citagni, vrsty-agni, bhojagni and reto-havanagni" are described in the Chandogya Upanisad and the Vedanta-sutra.  In this way one birth follows another.  According to the desires he had in his previous births, the soul attains a particular kind of new body.  In this way he attains a certain kind of material nature and a particular status among the castes.  According to the way he acts in the varnasrama system, he gets an appropriate new body at the time of death.  Meanwhile his original spiritual form remains covered, first by the linga-sarira, and secondly by the sthula-sarira.
	Vrajanatha:  What is the difference between the eternal spiritual body and the linga-sarira?
	Babaji: The eternal body is an atomic particle of spirit.  It has no defects.  The soul may properly apply the word "I" to this body alone.  The linga-sarira is composed of material perversions of the soul's original mind, intelligence and ego.
	Vrajanatha: How can mind, intelligence and ego be material?  If they are material, how can they be conscious of anything?
	Babaji: Lord Krsna explains in the Bhagavad-gita (7.4-6):
	"Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false-ego - altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies.*
	"Besides this inferior nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine, which are all living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe.*
	"Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both its origin and dissolution."*
	Look at these words of Gita Upanisad.  Here two natures: superior (para) and inferior (apara) are described.  The superior nature is the jiva-sakti, and the inferior nature is the maya-sakti.  Because it is a particle of spirit, the jiva sakti is here called 'superior'.  On the other hand, the maya-sakti is made of matter, and therefore it is called 'inferior'.  The individual spirit souls are different from the inferior, material potency.  The inferior potency has eight elements: the five gross elements and the three subtle elements of mind, intelligence and false ego.  When they are manifested in the material potency, mind, intelligence and ego are material in nature.  These three form a body made of consciousness, but that consciousness is not spiritual, it is material consciousness.  From the material mind all else is manifested.  The mind is thus conscious of material objects and engaged in directing material activities.  Thus the material mind is the root from which material things grow.  It is not the root of spiritual things.  In the material consciousness is placed the conception of what is good and what is  not good.  This is called 'intelligence'.  This intelligence is material in nature.  From this material intelligence material ego is manifested.  This kind of ego is not spiritual in its nature.  When these three material elements (material mind, intelligence and ego) combine they form a second body, which is called the linga-sarira.  The material ego of this material linga-sarira then covers the eternal spiritual ego of the individual spirit soul.  In the soul's eternal spiritual form, the spiritual ego understands its relationship with the spiritual Krsna-sun.  When the soul attains liberation, this original spiritual ego becomes uncovered and is openly manifested.  As long as the linga-sarira covers the soul's eternal spiritual form, the soul tends to identify itself as matter.  At that time the truth, that the soul is spiritual, is almost completely lost.  The linga-sarira is made of subtle matter and because it is subtle it is easily covered by another body, the sthula-sarira, which is made of gross matter.  When the covering of the sthula-sarira is in place, the ego identifies with one of the castes or other groups (varnas) of this world.  Because they are perverted manifestations of their counterparts in the soul's original spiritual body, the material mind, intelligence and ego think they are really conscious of the world around them.
	Vrajanatha: I understand now that the individual soul has an eternal spiritual form, each limb of which is very graceful and beautiful.  When the soul is imprisoned by Maya, that original spiritual form is covered by the linga-sarira.  In this way the soul's beauty is covered and hidden.  Then the linga-sarira is covered by the gross sthula-sarira.  In this way the soul's original form is completely hidden by a great apparatus of material things.  My question is this: Is the liberated soul completely perfect and free of any defect?
	Babaji: Although he is free of defects, the atomic spiritual soul is not perfect.  Why no?  He is very tiny and very weak.  For this reason one defect may be seen in the individual soul: because he is so weak, when he comes into contact with maya-sakti, the soul is easily overpowered  and his original form becomes covered.  In Srimad Bhagavatam (10.2.32) the demigods speak the following prayer to the Supreme Lord:
	"O lotus-eyed one, those who think they are liberated in this life but do not render devotional service to You must be of impure intelligence.  Although they accept severe austerities and penances to rise to the spiritual position, to impersonal Brahman realisation, they fall down again because they neglect to worship Your lotus feet."*
	Therefore, even when he is liberated, the individual spirit soul is not very great and is always imperfect.  That is the truth of the individual spirit souls.  The Vedas declare that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the controller of Maya, but on the other hand the individual spirit souls are so weak that at any moment they may be overpowered by Maya.

Chapter Sixteen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya Prayojana (Prameyantar-gata Maya-kavalita Jiva-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana (The Individual Souls Swallowed by Maya)
	After he had heard the Dasa-mula's teachings about the individual spirit soul, Vrajanatha lay in his bed in his own home and deeply thought, "Who am I?"  that question was answered.  Now I know who I am.  I am an atomic particle of light shining from the spiritual sun of Lord Krsna.  I am atomic in size, and therefore I possess consciousness, a spiritual identity, and a single drop of spiritual bliss.  I have a form made of a tiny fragment of spirit.  I am very tiny and my form is somewhat like the moderately sized form of Lord Krsna.  I cannot see my spiritual form.  That is my misfortune.  That I am now very eager to see this spiritual form means that now I have become fortunate.  Why did I fall into this unfortunate situation?  I must understand that very clearly.  Tomorrow I will place this question before Sri Gurudeva's feet.  He thought about it again and again.  After six hours of the night had passed, the goddess of sleep came like a thief and gradually stole away his wakefulness.  Then the night was ending he dreamed that he had renounced the material world and accepted the garments of a Vaisnava.  When his sleep broke he though, "Now the Lord will take me from this material life."  He went to the family shrine of Goddess Durga.  His students came, fell at his feet, and requested, "We have come to study logic.  Please teach us the book Kusumanjali.  That is our wish."  Vrajanatha humbly replied, "Like Nimai Pandita, I too have closed my books.  I have made my mind place its gaze on a different path.  Please find another teacher." One by one, the students left.  Then the matchmaker Caturbhuja Misra visited Vrajanatha's grandmother with a proposal for Vrajanatha's marriage.  He said, "Vijayanatha Bhattacarya comes in a good family.  His daughter is very beautiful.  She would be good for your grandson.  The Bhattacarya has not yet promised his daughter to anyone."  Hearing this marriage proposal, Vrajanatha's grandmother became very happy.  Vrajanatha thought, "What a calamity!  Now I have decided to renounce the world.  How can any good come from this talking of my marriage?  With Vrajanatha on one side and his mother, grandmother, and the elderly ladies of the family on the other, there was much talking about it.  In that way the day passed.  At sunset there were clouds, thunder, and rain.  That day Vrajanatha did not go to Mayapura.  The night passed.  The next day there was more talk about the marriage.  Vrajanatha could  not peacefully take his meals or do anything else.  At sunset Vrajanatha approached the elderly babaji's cottages.  He offered dandavat obeisances.  The saintly babaji said, "Last night it rained, so you could not come.  Now I am very glad to see you."  Vrajanatha replied, "O master, many calamities have fallen upon me.  Later I will  tell you about them.  For now I will ask this question: The individual soul is pure spirit.  Why does the calamity of residing in the material world fall upon him?"  The saintly babaji smiled and recited this verse:
	"Covering them with gross and subtle material forms, chaining them with the modes of nature, and pulling them with the painful ropes of karma, Maya leads to Svargaloka and to hell the criminal souls who, forgetting their own spiritual welfare, have turned from Krsna and become intent on their own happiness."
	In Goloka, which is manifested by Lord Baladeva, and in Vaikuntha, which is manifested by Lord Sankarsana, numberless individual souls are eternal associates of the Lord.  There they taste the nectar of worshipping and serving the Lord.  They are always inclined to spiritual things.  They seek the happiness of worshipping the Lord.  They are always eager to serve the Lord.  Empowered by the Lord's jiva-sakti and cit-sakti, they always have great spiritual strength.  They never touch Maya.  They do not even know that a potency called maya-sakti exists.  Staying in the middle of the circle of the spiritual world, they are very far away from Maya.  They always swim in the ocean of pleasure that is worshipping and serving the Lord.  They know nothing of suffering, material pleasure or selfish pleasure.  They are eternally liberated.  Love for the Lord is their entire life.  What are grief, death, and fear they do not know.  When He glances at Maya, Lord Karanodakasayi Visnu sends numberless atomic spirit souls to the material world.  Because they are now on Maya's side, the many creations of Maya now enter the pathway of their eyes.  These souls have all the qualities of the soul I have already described.  However, because they are atomic in size, from the border of matter and spirit (tatastha) they must place their glance on either the spiritual world or the material world.  The individual souls are very weak.  How can this not be?  These souls did not obtain the spiritual strength that comes from the Lord's mercy, mercy that comes from properly serving Him.  That is why these souls develop a desire to enjoy the pleasures that Maya offers.  These souls enter Maya's world, and there Maya imprisons them for what seems an eternity.  When these souls again turn to spiritual life and service to the Lord, they can attain the Lord's mercy, which will give them spiritual strength.  Then they can return to the spiritual world.  Baba, I am very unfortunate.  I have forgotten that I am eternally a servant of Lord Krsna.  I have entered Maya's world, and here Maya keeps me imprisoned.  I have forgotten my own spiritual welfare.  I am very unfortunate!
	Vrajanatha: O master, why did some souls leave the borderline of matter and spirit and enter the world of Maya?  Why did other souls go to the spiritual world?
	Babaji: Lord Krsna's own qualities are present in a very small degree in the individual spirit souls.  Because Lord Krsna has free will, so the individual souls eternally possess a small quantity of free will also.  When that free will is used properly, the individual soul is favourable to Krsna and turns toward Him.  When the free will is misused, the soul is averse to Krsna and turns away from Him.  Then the soul tries to enjoy Maya.  Puffed up with petty pride, the soul thinks, "I am the enjoyer of matter."  Then the pure spiritual form of the soul becomes covered by the five kinds of ignorance that begin with illusion and false-ego.  Thus it is the proper or improper use of free will that bring us either liberation or imprisonment in the material world.
	Vrajanatha: Lord Krsna is supremely merciful.  Why, then, did He make the individual spirit souls so weak that they fall into Maya's world?
	Babaji: As He is merciful, so Krsna is also playful.  Desiring many different kinds of pastimes with individual spirit souls in many different conditions of life, He created many exalted conditions, which culminate in 'maha-bhava' great ecstatic spiritual love for the Lord., and He also created, with the help of Sri Radha's expansion Maya, the degraded material conditions of life, which reach their nadir in 'ahankara' (the soul's misidentification with matter).  In this way, by the influence of Sri Radha there is the attainment of limitless transcendental bliss, and by the influence of Maya there is a descent into the lower depths.  The souls that thus enter Maya's abyss are not interested in their own spiritual well-being.  They are averse to Lord Krsna and interested in their own selfish pleasure.  Thus they go down lower and lower.  However, supremely merciful Lord Krsna sends His own personal associates from His own spiritual world into the material world to make these souls favourable to Him and to lift them out of the abyss.  In this way some of the fallen souls gradually become elevated and eventually return to the spiritual world, where they become eternal associates of the Lord.
	Vrajanatha: Why must the individual souls suffer so the Lord can enjoy pastimes like these?
	Babaji: What should be said is this: It is by the great mercy of the Lord that the individual souls have free will.  Why not speak in that way?  Inanimate matter is very lowly and unimportant because it has no free will.  It is because they have free will that the individual souls can become masters of the world of matter.  "Pain" and "pleasure" are two destinations the mind can attain.  What you and I may call "pain", another person, who is attached to it, may call "pleasure".  All material pleasures bring only pain at the end.  They do not lead to anything but that.  Therefore a person attached to material pleasures becomes unhappy at the end.  When that unhappiness becomes very acute, the soul begins to desire happiness that is not mixed with sufferings.  From that desire comes intelligence, and from that intelligence comes the spirit of inquiry.  From the spirit of inquiry comes association with saintly persons, from association with saintly persons comes faith in spiritual life, and from faith in spiritual life one becomes gradually elevated.  In this way what began as pain became at the end the giver of auspicious happiness.  When it is heated and burnished, impure gold becomes pure.  In the same way, when they suffer in Maya's material world, the impure souls averse to Lord Krsna and yearning to enjoy maya become purified.  That this suffering turns into the giver of happiness is the mercy of Lord Krsna.  Therefore they who are far-sighted see that these sufferings of the conditioned souls eventually bring auspicious happiness.  They who are short sighted cannot see that.  They see only sufferings.
	Vrajanatha: Although they may bring happiness at the end, for the present the conditioned souls' sufferings are very painful.  Could not the all-powerful Lord invent a different path, one without these sufferings?
	Babaji: Lord Krsna enjoys many different kinds of wonderful pastimes.  This is one of His wonderful pastimes.  A person who is supremely independent can enjoy many different kinds of pastimes, and this may be one of them.  Why not?  If the Lord has every kind of pastime, then no pastime may be rejected.  If one pastime is substituted for another, then still some kind of troubles must be expected.  Lord Krsna is the supreme person and the creator.  Everyone is subject to His will.  If one person is subject to another's will, is there not some difficulty in that?  If that difficulty eventually leads to happiness, then it is no difficulty at all.  Why do you say it is suffering and difficulty?  If to expand Lord Krsna's pastimes the individual souls go through some difficulties, the difficulties are only happiness.  Lord Krsna's pastimes are naturally full of bliss.  If an individual soul of his own free will voluntarily leaves those pastimes and enters the world of Maya and accepts the sufferings there, then if anyone is at fault it is the individual soul who is at fault.  Krsna is not at fault.
	Vrajanatha: In that situation, what is the harm that Lord Krsna does not give the soul free will?  Krsna knows everything.  Therefore Krsna knows  if a certain soul will misuse his free will and bring suffering to himself.  In that situation it is cruel of Krsna to give such a person free will.  Is it not?
	Babaji:  Free will is a precious jewel.  In the material world there are many inanimate material objects.  None of them were given the jewel of free will.  That is why inanimate objects are lowly and unimportant.  If he had not been given free will, the individual soul would be lowly and unimportant, just like inanimate objects.  The individual soul is a tiny particle of spirit.  Whatever qualities spirit has, the soul must also have.  Free will is one of the qualities of spirit.  Spirit can never be separated from its eternal qualities.  Therefore, as a tiny particle of spirit, the soul must have free will.  It is because they have free will that the individual souls are superior to inanimate matter and are the masters of the material world.  The souls, who all have free will, are all the dear servants of Lord Krsna.  When they misuse that free will and enter the world of maya, merciful Krsna weeps to see how they are suffering.  Eager to deliver them, He follows the individual souls into the material world. Ware that the souls will not see His nectarean pastimes in the material world, He brings His inconceivable pastimes there.  Seeing that the conditioned souls do not understand His pastimes, he descends to Navadvipa and teaches them about His form, qualities, and pastimes and about His own holy name, which is the best way for spiritual advancement, and He also teaches them by acting the role of His won devotee.  Baba, how can you place the blame on merciful Krsna?  Even though His mercy is fathomless, you remain unfortunate and very pathetic.
	Vrajanatha: Is the maya-sakti then out enemy and the cause of our misfortune?  Krsna is all-powerful and all-knowing.  If Krsna had driven Maya far away, then the individual souls would not have to suffer.
	Babaji:  Maya is the reflection of the Lord's internal potency.  She is a perverted manifestation of the Lord's pure spiritual potency.  She purifies the criminal rebellious souls.  She gives them a way to reform themselves.  Maya is a maidservant of Lord Krsna.  She punishes the souls averse to Lord Krsna.  She gives them medicine and cures them.  By forgetting "I am eternally a servant of Lord Krsna", the individual souls commit a crime.  They are at fault.  It is because of this crime that the witch Maya punishes them.  These criminals souls are sent to the prison that is the world of Maya.  As it is out of kindness that a king sends a criminal to prison, so it is out of kindness that Lord Krsna sends these criminal souls to the prison of the material world and placed Maya there as the warden.
	Vrajanatha: If the material world is a prison, then what are the shackles?
	Babaji: Maya's shackles are of three kinds: 1. shackles made of the mode of goodness, 2. shackles made of the mode of passion, and 3. shackles made of the mode of ignorance.  The criminal souls are bound with these shackles in different appropriate ways.  Some souls may be bound with goodness shackles, others with passion shackles, and others with ignorance shackles.  All are shackled.  There may be golden shackles, silver shackles or iron shackles.  Shackles made of different elements do not cease to be shackles.
	Vrajanatha: How can the shackles of Maya bind the soul, which is an atomic particle of spirit?
	Babaji: Material things cannot touch spiritual things.  When an individual soul gets the idea "I am the enjoyer of Maya", the subtle coverings of material ego is placed around him.  Covered in this way by subtle matter, his feet are bound with Maya's shackles.  The individual souls covered with material ego in the mode of goodness are the demigods residing in the higher material planets.  Their feet are bound with the golden shackles of the mode of goodness.  The individual souls covered with material ego in the mode of passion have a nature that is a combination of the natures of the demigods and the human beings.  Their feet are bound with the silver shackles of the mode of passion.  The individual souls covered with material ego in the mode of ignorance are intoxicated by material pleasures.  Their feet are bound with the iron shackles of the mode of ignorance.  None of these shackled souls can leave the prison.  All are troubled by many kinds of sufferings.
	Vrajanatha: What activities are done by the souls in Maya's prison?
	Babaji: Firstly they do what they can to enjoy material pleasures, and secondly they do what they can to avoid or negate the sufferings that come from the shackles they wear.
	Vrajanatha: Please describe to me the first of these actions.
	Babaji: The sthula-sarira is the gross material body covering the soul.  It has six stages of existence: 1. the birth of the material body, 2. its maintenance, 3. its decline, 4. its growth, 5. its change, and 6. its dissolution.  The gross material body undergoes these six changes.  Hunger, thirst, and other like desires are also part of the body's nature.  Pushed by the desire for material pleasures, the soul within the material body becomes an obedient servant of eating, sleeping, associating with women, and other material activities.  To attain material pleasures he performs the ten pious rituals that begin with birth and end on the funeral pyre.  He performs the eighteen kinds of yajnas described in the Vedas.  He hopes "By following the path of pious deeds (karma), I will enjoy with the demigods in Svargaloka.  When I again enter the human realm, I will take birth in a brahmana's home and I will enjoy many happinesses."  Or, the imprisoned soul may follow the impious path.  By performing many sins, he enjoys sense pleasures.  By the first course of action one attains Svargaloka and other higher material planets.  Then, when his period of enjoyment ends, the soul again attains a human body.  By the second course of action one goes to hell because of his many sins.  When his period of suffering ends, the soul again attains a human body.  In this way the soul imprisoned by Maya travels on the wheel of karma.  Day after day he struggles to enjoy material pleasures and he tastes the fruits of his actions.  Thus, beginning at a time he cannot trace, the soul wanders in the material worlds.  By performing pious deeds, he briefly enjoys, and by performing sins, he briefly suffers.
	Vrajanatha: Now please describe the second kind of action.
	Babaji: Caught in a trap of many needs, the soul in a gross material body suffers.  To drive away these sufferings, he acts in many ways.  To drive away hunger and thirst, he struggles to get food and drink.  So these things may come easily, he labours to collect money.  To drive away the cold, he collects clothing.  To stop the thirst for sense pleasures he becomes married and performs many other activities also.  To fill the needs and increase the happiness of his family and descendants, he labours hard.  When the gross material body is attacked by disease, he must find medicines or other ways to cure it.  To protect his property he enters disputes in the law courts.  Tossed about by the six waves - lust, anger, greed, bewilderment, pride and envy - he engages in fighting, argument, violence to others, tormenting others, robbing others' wealth, cruelty, senseless pride, and a host of other evil deeds.  So he can live independently, he builds his own house and performs other deeds.  In this way the soul in Maya's prison struggles day and night to attain pleasure and stop distress.
	Vrajanatha: Had Maya only covered the soul with the linga-sarira (subtle body), would that not have been enough?
	Babaji: No.  With just the linga-sarira, no one can perform actions.  Therefore the covering of the sthula-sarira (gross body) is necessary.  Following the results of actions performed by the sthula-sarira, various desires are created in the linga-sarira.  Following these desires, (at the time of his next birth) the soul attains an appropriate new sthula-sarira.
	Vrajanatha: What is the relationship between actions and the results they bring?  The mimamsa philosophers say that God, who awards the results of actions, is only a fiction, that every action produces something called an 'apurva' and this 'apurva' gives the result of the action.  Is this true?
	Babaji: The followers of karma-mimamsa do not understand the true conclusion of the Vedas.  Quickly glancing at the Vedic yajnas and other pious deeds, they come to a hasty conclusion.  The true conclusion of the Vedas they do not grasp.  The Vedas explain (Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.6 and Mundaka Upanisad 3.1.1):
	"In the individual spirit soul and the Supersoul, Supreme Personality of Godhead, are like two friendly birds sitting on the same tree.  One of the birds (the individual atomic soul) is eating the fruit of the tree (the sense gratification afforded by the material body), and the other bird (the Supersoul) is not trying to eat these fruits, but is simply watching His friend."*
	Where is there any mention here of the mimamsa philosophers 'apurva'?  Any conclusion that denies the existence of God cannot be good.
	Vrajanatha: Why did you say that karma has no beginning?
	Babaji: Material desire is the root from which all karma (fruitive action) grows.  Ignorance is the root from which material desires grows.  That ignorance did not begin within the boundaries of material time.  The ignorance that is the root of the individual soul's karma begins at the borderline of matter and spirit (tatastha).  Therefore the beginning of karma occurs outside the framework of material time.  In that sense karma has no beginning.
	Vrajanatha: What is the difference between 'maya' and 'ignorance'?
	Babaji:  Maya is Lord Krsna's potency.  Using this potency, He created the material world to purify the rebellions souls.  Maya has two features 'avidya' (ignorance) and 'pradhana' (the primordial form of matter).  Avidya directs her efforts to the individual souls, and pradhana directs its efforts to inanimate matter.  From pradhana the material universes are manifested.  From avidya the material desires of the conditioned souls are manifested.  Maya also has two other features: 'vidya' (knowledge) and "avidya" (ignorance).  These two both direct their efforts to the individual spirit souls.  Avidya keeps the souls imprisoned in the material world, and vidya releases them from that prison.  When the criminal souls turn toward Lord Krsna, the vidya potency acts on them, and when the criminal souls forget Krsna, the avidya potency acts.  Knowledge of Brahman is a specific feature of vidya.  The first phase of vidya is pious deeds, and the concluding phase is understanding the truth.  Avidya covers the soul and vidya uncovers him.
	Vrajanatha: What does pradhana do?
	Babaji: In the beginning the Supreme Lord employs time to agitate the material energy.  In this way the mahat-tattva is produced.  Agitated in this way, Maya's feature called 'pradhana' creates things.  From the mahat-tattva, the false-ego is manifested.  When false-ego is transformed by ignorance, the sky is manifested.  From the sky, air is manifested.  From air, fire is manifested.  From fire, water is manifested.  From water, earth is manifested.  In this way the five material elements, which are called 'panca-maha-bhuta', are manifested.  Now please hear how the five 'tan-matras' are created.  When time agitates avidya (ignorance), jnana (knowledge of the impersonal) and karma (fruitive action) are manifested from the mahat-tattva.  From the karma thus manifested from the mahat-tattva, the modes of goodness and passion are manifested, and from them come jnana (knowledge) and kriya (action).  From the mahat-tattva, false-ego is manifested.  From false-ego, intelligence is manifested.  From intelligence, the quality of sound is perceived in the sky.  From sound comes touch.  Thus sound and touch are manifested the air.  From them come 'prana' (the life-force), 'ojah' (energy) and 'bala' (strength).  In fire are manifested form, touch, and sound.  Then, by the transformation created by time, water is manifested. In water are taste, form, touch and sound.  A further transformation brings earth, in which are fragrance, taste, form, touch and sound.  The all-knowing purusa-avatara helps these changes become manifested.  False-ego has three features: 'vaikarika' (goodness), 'taijasa" (passion), and 'tamasa' (ignorance).  From false ego in the mode of goodness, material objects are manifested.  From false ego in the mode of passion, the ten material senses are manifested.  There are two sets of senses: knowledge-acquiring senses, and working senses.  The knowledge-acquiring senses are: eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin.  The working senses are: voice, hands, feet, genitals and rectum.  Even when the gross and subtle elements are assembled together, nothing can happen until the individual soul, the tiny particle of spirit enters.  With a glance, the Supreme Personality of Godhead places the individual soul in the body of gross and subtle elements, and only then does the body begin to move.  In this way the senses manifested by the modes of goodness and passion come into contact with the sense-objects the pradhana has manifested through the mode of ignorance.  In this way avidya and pradhana act.  Maya is divided into twenty four categories: the five great elements, namely earth, water, fire, air and sky, the five tan-matras, namely fragrance, form, taste, touch, and sound, the previously described ten knowledge-acquiring and working senses, and, in addition to these, mind, heart, intelligence and false-ego.  Altogether these are the twenty four categories of matter.  The conscious individual spirit soul is the twenty fifth category in the body, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Supersoul, in the twenty-sixth.
	Vrajanatha: In the human body of seven spans, what part is the subtle body, what part the gross body, and where in the body does the spirit soul reside?  Please tell me
	Babaji: The sthula-sarira (gross body) consists of the five gross elements (panca-maha-bhuta), five sense objects (panca-tan-matra) and the ten senses.  The linga-sarira (subtle body) consists of the mind, heart, intelligence and false-ego.  The individual spirit false thinks of this material body in terms of "I" and "mine".  In this way he does not understand how his own welfare is best served.  The soul, a tiny fragment of spirit, exists in a dimension beyond time, space, and the other features of the material world.  Even though it is a tiny particle, the soul is all-pervading within the material body.  As a tiny drop of sandal-paste cools the entire body, so the soul, situated in one place within the material body, is aware of the pleasure and pains of the body as a whole.
	Vrajanatha: If by his actions (karma) the individual soul creates his own pleasures and sufferings, what does the Supreme Personality of Godhead do?
	Babaji: The individual soul is the immediate cause, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate cause.  By his various actions, the individual soul makes himself qualified to receive various results.  However, he does not have the power to simply take them.  All results must be given to him by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate cause.  The Supreme Personality of Godhead gives the results, and the individual spirit soul receives them.
	Vrajanatha: Through what different stages of life do the souls imprisoned by Maya pass?
	Babaji: The souls imprisoned by Maya in a gross material body pass through five stages of existence.  They are: "acchadita-cetana" (covered consciousness), "sankucita-cetana" (retracted consciousness), "mukulita-cetana" (budding consciousness), "vikacita-cetana" (blossoming consciousness), and "purna-vikacita-cetana" (fully blossomed consciousness).
	Vrajanatha: Which souls are in the stage of covered consciousness?
	Babaji: The souls who reside in the bodies of trees, grass, and stones are in the stage of covered consciousness.  They are close to being unconscious.  Forgetting that they are servants of Krsna, they have entered deeply into the realm of matter.  They have no understanding of spirit.  All they know is the six changes of material life.  This is the lowest depth to which the soul can fall.  Ahalya, the yamalarjuna trees, and the seven tala trees are some examples the Puranas give of souls in this stage of existence.  Great offenses push souls into that state, and Lord Krsna's mercy delivers them.
	Vrajanatha: Which souls are in the stage of retracted consciousness?
	Babaji: Animals, birds, snakes, fish, other water-creatures, worms and insects are examples of the beings with retracted consciousness.  The beings with covered consciousness exist on the verge of being unconscious.  The beings with retracted consciousness have their consciousness a little opened.  That consciousness is directed toward eating, sleeping, fearing and bustling to and fro to fulfil a host of desires, arguing with others over property claims and anger when someone is wronged. However, that consciousness remains unaware of the existence of a world beyond the circle of matter.  Monkeys may be mischievous, may give some thought to understanding the way things work, by thinking "This will happen, and that will not happen", may plan for the future, and may show signs of gratefulness and other like feelings.  Some animals have knowledge of the different properties of various objects.  However, the animals do not search to find God.  Therefore their consciousness is said to be retracted.  In the scriptures it is said that the great devotee Bharata took birth as a deer and in that condition he was fully aware of the holy names of the Supreme Lord.  However, Bharata was a special case.  In general, animals do not have spiritual knowledge.  Because of offenses, Bharata and Nrga became animals, but then by the mercy of the Supreme Lord, they again attained an auspicious condition of life.
	Vrajanatha: Which souls are in the stage of budding consciousness?
	Babaji: Conditioned souls in human bodies display three stages of consciousness: budding consciousness, blossoming consciousness, and fully blossomed consciousness.  There are five kinds of human beings: immoral people, atheists who follow moral principles, people who believe in God and follow moral principles, people engaged in practical devotional service (sadhana-bhakti), and people engaged in loving devotional service (bhava-bhakti).  Thus the categories are: people who because of ignorance or because of improper knowledge become atheists, the immoral people, the moral atheists, the moral people who have a little faith in God, the people who believe in God, the people who, following the rules of the scriptures, engage in sadhana-bhakti (devotional service in practice), and the people who have attained love for God and thus engage in bhava-bhakti.  The immoral people and the two kinds of atheists are situated in the stage of budding consciousness.  The people who believe in God and the people engaged in sadhana-bhakti are situated in the stage of blossoming consciousness, and the people engaged in bhava-bhakti are situated in the stage of fully blossomed consciousness.
	Vrajanatha: For how many days do the souls situated in bhava-bhakti continue to stay in Maya's prison?
	Babaji: This question is answered in the seventh verse of the Dasa-mula.  Now it is night.  You should go home.

Chapter Seventeen
Nitya-dharma O Sambandhabhidheya Prayojana (Prameyantar-gata Maya-mukta-jiva-vicara)
Eternal Religion and Sambandha, Abhidheya and Prayojana (The Souls Free From Maya's Prison)
	The grandmother had already made arrangements for Vrajanatha's marriage.  That night she told Vrajanatha all about it.  Not giving any reply, Vrajanatha took his meal and went to bed.  Again and again thinking about the pure spirit soul, he fell asleep late at night.  The old grandmother kept thinking, "How can I make Vrajanatha agree to the marriage?"  At that time Vrajanatha's cousin Vani-Madhava arrived.  The girl in the proposed marriage was Vani-Madhava's cousin.  Vijaya Vidyaranta had sent  Vani-Madhava to complete the arrangements for the marriage.  Vani-Madhava said, "O great aunt, why is there a delay?  Please quickly make arrangements for Vrajanatha's marriage."  Vrajanatha's grandmother lamented, "Brother, you are very expert.  You convince Vrajanatha to agree to the marriage.  I told him about it, but Vrajanatha will not reply."
	Vani-Madhava was short, with a short neck, dark complexion, and blinking eyes.  He started many things, but he did not bring any of them to completion.  Hearing the old lady's words, he said, "Nothing can stop me.  If you command me, what can I not do?  Do you  know how expert I am?  I can multiply a single coin into a great sum.  Well, I will talk to Vrajanatha.  Will you not cook me a feast if I succeed?  The grandmother replied, "Vrajanatha went to bed right after his meal."  Hearing this, Vani-Madhava said, "Tomorrow I will come and take up the task", and left.  The next morning came.  Vrajanatha was sitting outside the shrine to Goddess Durga.  Seeing Vani-Madhava, Vrajanatha said, "Brother, why have you come?"  Vani-Madhava replied, "O noble brother, for many days you studied and taught the nyaya-sastra.  You are the son of Haranatha Cudamani.   Your name is famous in every country.  However, you are the only male in the family.  If there are no descendants, how can the family continue?  Brother, that is why we all request you: Please get married."  Vrajanatha replied, "Brother, why do you agitate me for no reason?  I have taken shelter of Lord Gaurasundara's devotees.  Why would I want to marry?  When I stay near the Vaisnavas of Sri Mayapura, I become filled with happiness.  I do not think worldly life is good.  I will take sannyasa.  I will take shelter of the Vaisnavas' feet.  I tell you this confidentially.  Please do not reveal it to anyone."  Seeing Vrajanatha's state of mind, Vani-Madhava thought, "This will not be an easy path to tread.  I will have to trick him.  Cunningly concealing what was in his heart, Vani-Madhava said, "I have always helped you.  When you were a student, I carried your books.  When you take sannyasa, I will carry your danda and waterpot."
	Cheaters speak with a forked tongue.  To one person they say one thing, and to another person they say something different.  In this way they make trouble.  From what they say it is not at once seen what is really in their hearts.  Honey sits on their mouths, and poison in their hearts.  Hearing Vani-Madhava's sweet words, Vrajanatha said, "brother, I know that for many days you have been my true friend.  My grandmother is an old lady.  She does not understand anything that is very deep.  She wants to push me together with this girl and throw me into a hell of household life.  If you can stop her, I will be forever indebted to you."  Vani-Madhava said, "Rest easy.  No one will do anything against your wishes.  Friend, tell me one thing with an open heart, so I will know how to help you.  I wish to know: Why do you hate the idea of getting married?  Who taught you to become renounced?  Vrajanatha told Vani-Madhava all about how he had become renounced.  He also said, "Elderly Raghunatha dasa Babaji in Mayapura is my teacher.  Every evening I go to him.  He has extinguished the blazing fire of my materialism.  He has been very kind to me."  Fashioning a sinister plot in his mind, Vani-Madhava though, "Now I have found his weak point.  Now I will construct an expert stratagem.  I will turn his weakness against him."  Then he said aloud, "Brother, in secret I will change your grandmother's mind.  But for now I will go home."  After speaking these words, He first went home and then by a side road he quickly went to the entrance of Srivasa's courtyard in Sri Mayapura.  Sitting under the bakula tree, he thought, "These Vaisnavas are plundering all the good things in the world for their own enjoyment!  What beautiful homes!  What a pleasant garden!  What a graceful courtyard!  What a beautiful place!  One by one they sit in their bhajana-kutiras.  The Vaisnava sit and chant on japa beads.  They are like the bulls of religion.  They are free of all cares!  After bathing in the Ganges, the respectable ladies of the neighbourhood bring them gifts of water, fruit, and various kinds of food.  The brahmanas used to get gifts like that for performing karma-kanda rituals.  Nowadays these babajis enjoy them.  O fortunate age of Kali!  'He says he is a devotee of Ramacandra, but in truth he is a devotee of Kali-yuga.'  Now I understand what that old saying means.  Alas! I am born in a brahmana's family in vain!  Nowadays no one gives us fruit!  No one gives even water!  The Vaisnava says the follower of nyaya are fools for talking so much about clay pots and scraps of cloth.  I think they are right.  At least about Vrajanatha.  Now he has fallen into the hands of these wicked people wearing only loincloths.  I am Vani-Madhava.  I will straighten out my friend.  I will straighten out these wicked Vaisnavas too."  Thinking in this way he entered one of the cottages.  By chance he had entered the cottage of saintly Raghunatha dasa Babaji, who was sitting down and chanting the holy names of Lord Hari.  A person's nature is easily seen on his face.  When the elderly babaji looked, he saw that Kali-yuga personified stood before him in the form of a brahmana's son.  Vaisnavas naturally think themselves very lowly and fallen.  When enemies torment them, they are patient and tolerant.  They wish good for all.  They don't require that others honour, although they give honour to everyone else.  That is why saintly Raghunatha dasa Babaji gave all respects to his guest and politely offered him a place to sit.  Vani-Madhava was very emphatically not a Vaisnava.  He did not understand the proper etiquette of how to approach a Vaisnava.  Thinking the elderly babaji a sudra, he gave a blessing to him.  The saintly babaji asked him, "Baba, what is your name?  My body, why have you come here?"  When the elderly babaji used the words "tumi" (you, the young boy) and "ami" (I, the respectable gentleman), Vani-Madhava became angry.  Speaking crookedly, Vani-Madhava said, "Babaji! Do you think by wearing a loincloth you are now equal to the brahmanas?  Ah well, it must be.  There is one thing I, a respectable gentleman, would like to ask you, O young boy.  Do you know a Vrajanatha Pancanana?"
	Babaji: Please forgive my offense.  Please do not find fault with an old man's words.  Vrajanatha kindly comes here sometimes.
	Vani-Madhava: He is not an honest man.  He will be humble and polite for two or four days.  That is how he will bring you under his control.  Then he will be able to make you do what he likes.  Seeing the way you act, the Bhattacaryas of Belapukura have become your bitter enemies.  Consulting among themselves, they have sent Vrajanatha to you.  You are an old man.  You should take care.  From time to time I will come and tell you of their plot.  Don't tell anyone about me.  If you tell them, it will not be good for you.  Now I must go.
	After speaking these words, Vani-Madhava returned to his own home.
	After finishing his lunch, Vani-Madhava went to Vrajanatha and said, "Brother, today I went to Mayapura on business.  There I saw an old Vaisnava.  Perhaps he was your Raghunatha dasa Babaji.  As I talked with him, the topic of you came up.  He used a very bad word to describe you, a word one should not use for a brahmana.  At the end he said, "I will make Vrajanatha eat the remnants from the plates of 36 low-caste people.  In that way I will destroy all the brahmanas."  Ha!  If panditas like you stay with such people, then no one will ever respect the brahmana panditas."  Vrajanatha was very surprised to hear all these words of Vani-Madhava.  There was no knowing why the firm faith he had in the Vaisnavas and the devotion he had for the elderly babaji suddenly became doubted.  Vrajanatha said, "Brother, today I am very busy.  Please go home, and in time I will think about what you said."  Vani-Madhava went home.
	Vrajanatha knew well that Vani-Madhava was double-hearted.  Vrajanatha had been involved in nyaya logic, but he did not like dishonesty.  Now he could see why Vani-Madhava offered to help him take sannyasa.  He could understand Vani-Madhava's crooked reason for speaking favourably about sannyasa.  As he thought about it, he concluded that Vani-Madhava must have something to gain from this marriage, and Vani-Madhava must have gone to Mayapura to do something to further his crooked plot.  In his thoughts Vrajanatha prayed to the Supreme Lord, "O Supreme Lord, please give me strong faith in my spiritual master and in the Vaisnavas.  Let it not diminish because of the misdeeds of cunning men.  As he thought about these things, the day came to an end.  With an agitated heart, he went to Srivasa's courtyard at dusk.
	After Vani-Madhava had left, the saintly elderly babaji thought, "That man is a brahmana-raksasa.  The scriptures declare:
	"In the Kali-yuga, raksasa take birth in the families of brahmanas."
	"That man is seen in those words.  He has pride of caste, pride even though he has nothing really to be proud about.  He hates the Vaisnavas.  He is a hypocrite, proudly waving the flag of piety while he sins.  All these things are written on his face.  His short neck, blinking eyes, and devious words all show what is in his heart.  Ah, how pleasant and gentle is Vrajanatha, and how much of a demon is this other fellow!  O Lord Krsna, O Lord Gauranga, please let me not associate with people like him.  Today I will warn Vrajanatha about him."
	Vrajanatha entered the cottage.  The saintly elderly babaji, his affection for Vrajanatha now doubled, said, "Come in, baba.  Come in," and embraced Vrajanatha.  Tears flowing from his eyes, Vrajanatha kissed the dust of the babaji's feet.  Embarrassed, he could not speak.  The saintly babaji said, "This morning a dark-complexioned brahmana came here and spoke some very disturbing words.  Do you know him?"
	Vrajanatha: O master, you have explained to me that many different kinds of living entities live in this material world.  Among all these living entities, some envious beings delight in troubling others.  Among these envious beings my cousin (I am embarrassed to call him my cousin) Vani-Madhava is one of the foremost.  If we do not talk about him, that will make me happy.  The truth is that to you he speaks bad things about me and to me he speaks bad things about you.  He does this so we will think badly of each other and out friendship will break.  When you hear his words, did you not form an opinion in your mind?
	Babaji: O Krsna! O Gauranga! For a long time I have served the Vaisnavas.  By their mercy I have a little power to tell who is a Vaisnava and who is not a Vaisnava.  I have understood everything.  You need not say anything about this.
	Vrajanatha: Let us forget all he has said.  Please tell me:  How is the soul released from Maya's prison?
	Babaji: When you hear the seventh verse of the Dasa-mula, you will find the answer to your question:
	"When a soul wandering from one species to another in the material world sees a Vaisnava filled with the nectar of devotion to Lord Hari, he becomes attracted to follow that Vaisnavas.  By chanting the holy names of Lord Krsna, that soul gradually renounces materialism, and in the end he regains his original spiritual form.  In that form he enjoys the pure and sweet nectar of the spiritual mellows of direct service to Lord Krsna."
	Vrajanatha: I would like to hear one or two quotes from the Vedas as evidence for these truths.
	Babaji: In the Vedas it is said (Mundaka Upanisad 3.1.2 and Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.7):
	"Although the two birds (the Supersoul and the individual soul) are on the same tree, the eating bird (the individual soul) is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree.  But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend who is the Lord, and knows His glories, at once the suffering bird becomes free of all anxieties."*
	Vrajanatha: It is said that when he sees the worshipable Supreme Lord and understands His glory, the individual soul becomes free from anxiety.  Do these words describe 'liberation'?
	Babaji: When one is released from Maya's prison, that is called 'liberation'.  To attain liberation one must associate with saintly devotees of the Lord.  When he attains liberation, the soul regains its original spiritual glory.  That kind of liberation should be sought.  In Srimad Bhagavatam (2.10.6) it is said:
	"Liberation is the permanent situation of the form of the living entity after he gives up the changeable gross and subtle material bodies."*
	When the soul is released from Maya's prison, at the moment he is at once liberated.  However, when he is thus situated in his original form, the soul begins to perform an endless series of spiritual activities.  The soul's first need is to perform these duties.  It may be said that liberation puts an end to a great host of sufferings.  However, beyond that, liberation brings with it spiritual bliss.  This is described in the following words of Chandogya Upanisad (8.12.3):
	"Then the soul leaves the material body and goes to the effulgent Supreme Personality of Godhead.  The soul then regains his original spiritual form and in that form he enjoys many pastimes, eating and playing with the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
	Vrajanatha: What are the signs that show one has been released from Maya's prison?
	Babaji: Eight signs are described in these words of the Chandogya Upanisad (8.7.1):
	"One should seek a soul who is free from sins, old-age, death, lamentation, hunger, and thirst, who desires the truth, and whose thoughts are fixed on the truth."
	Vrajanatha: In the verse from the Dasa-mula it was said that when he attains the association of a Vaisnava who relishes the nectar mellows of  service to Lord Hari, the soul wandering in the cycle of birth and death can attain auspiciousness.  I have a question.  By practicing impersonal speculation, astanga-yoga, or other auspicious deeds, does one not at the end attain devotional service to Lord Hari?
	Babaji: With His own transcendental mouth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead declares (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.12.1-2):
	"Neither through astanga-yoga (the mystic yoga system to control the senses), nor through impersonal monism or an analytical study of the Absolute Truth, nor through study of the Vedas, nor through practice of austerities,  nor through charity,, nor through acceptance of sannyasa, nor through yajnas, nor through Vedic hymns, nor through going on pilgrimages,  nor through religious duties and self-control can one attain Me as much as one can by associating with saintly devotees whose good association releases one from all that is inauspicious."
	In the Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya (8.61) it is said:
	"Association is very important.  It acts just like a crystal stone, which will reflect anything which is put before it.  Similarly, if we associate with the flowerlike devotees of the Lord, and if our hearts are crystal clear, then certainly the same action will be there."*
	Therefore association with saintly devotees brings an auspicious result.  When the scriptures say one should live alone, the meaning is that one should associate only with devotees.  If by accident  one unknowingly associates with devotees, he attains a great benefit.  In Srimad Bhagavatam (3.23.55) it is said:
	"Association for sense gratification is certainly the path of bondage.  But the same type of association, performed with a saintly person, leads to the path of liberation, even if performed without knowledge."*
	In Srimad Bhagavatam (7.5.32) it is also said:
	"Unless they smear upon their bodies the dust of the lotus feet of a Vaisnava completely freed from material contamination, persons very much inclined toward materialistic life cannot be attached to the lotus feet of the Lord, who is gloried for His uncommon activities.  Only by becoming Krsna conscious and taking shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord in this way can one be freed from material contamination."*
	In Srimad Bhagavatam (10.48.31) it is also said:
	"One can take advantage of the place of pilgrimage only after going there.  By worshipping the particular demigod, it takes a long time for fulfilment of desire, but saintly persons like you, My dear Akrura, can immediately fulfil all the desires of the devotees."*
	In Srimad Bhagavatam (10.51.53) it is also said:
	"O my Lord!  O infallible Supreme Person! When a person wandering throughout the universes becomes eligible for liberation from material existence, he gets an opportunity to associate with devotees.  When he associates with devotees, his attraction for You is awakened.  You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the highest goal of the supreme devotees and the Lord of the universe."*
	Vrajanatha: By performing pious deeds one attains the association of saintly devotees.  What are these pious deeds?  Are they not karma (Vedic rituals) and jnana (impersonal speculation)?
	Babaji: The scriptures describe pious deeds.  Pious deeds are of two kinds: 1. pious deeds that bring devotional service, and 2. pious deeds that bring useless results.  Regular and occasional Vedic duties, sankhya philosophy, and impersonal speculation all bring useless results.  Association with saintly devotees and contact with places, times and things that bring devotion bring the result of devotional service.  As one accumulates these results, they eventually become so powerful that they bring devotion for Lord Krsna.  The useless results produced by other pious activities do not accumulate in this way.  One enjoys their results and then they are gone.  In this material world pious activities like giving charity bring material enjoyment as their result.  Impersonal speculation and other like activities bring impersonal liberation as their result.  The activities do not have the power to give devotional service.  Associating with saintly devotees, observing ekadasi, Janmastami, Gaura-purnima, and other holy days that instil devotion in persons observing them, worshipping Tulasi-devi, worshipping the Lord in His temple, honouring maha-prasadam, visiting holy places, and seeing and touching the devotees all bring the result of devotional service.
	Vrajanatha: If a person tormented by the troubles of material life flees from material illusion and intelligently takes shelter of Lord Hari's feet, will he not attain devotional service?
	Babaji: If he intelligently understands that his sufferings are all caused by the illusory potency maya, and that the entire material world is by nature inauspicious, and that his only shelter is the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord and the association of the Lord's devotees, then he will take shelter of the feet of the devotees who have taken shelter of the feet of the Lord.  Taking shelter of their feet is the most effective means to attain devotional service.  That is the way one attains the feet of the Supreme Lord.  In the beginning renunciation and the intelligence to understand what is auspicious and what is not auspicious are certainly present, but they are of only secondary importance for a person striving for devotional service.  Association with saintly devotees is the most important factor in attaining devotional service.  Aside from that association, no other means is very important.
	Vrajanatha: What is the objection to saying that karma (pious deeds), jnana (impersonal speculation), vairagya (renunciation) and viveka (the ability to understand what is auspicious and what is not) are secondary means that also help one attain devotional service?
	Babaji" There is an objection.  Generally, these means bring results that are trivial and useless.  After giving the soul material pleasures, pious deeds go away.  Renunciation and the ability to understand what is auspicious and what is not tend to lead to impersonalism.  Impersonalism tends to cheat the soul of the opportunity to attain the Lord's feet.  One should not trust these means to bring devotional service.  Sometimes these means may take one to devotional service, but generally they do not.  On the other hand, association with pure devotees does not bring results that are trivial and temporary.  Their association inevitably brings one to pure love of God.  In the Srimad Bhagavatam (3.25.25) the Supreme Lord explains:
	"In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very pleasing and satisfying to the ear and heart.  By cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed and his attraction becomes fixed.  Then real devotion and devotional service begin."*
	Vrajanatha: Association with saintly devotees is then the way to attain devotional service.  First one hears from the devotees' mouths the descriptions of Lord Hari, and then one attains devotional service.  Is that the right sequence?
	Babaji: I will tell you the right sequence.  Please listen.  A soul wandering from birth to birth in the material world may by destiny attain something that leads to devotional service.  In the course of his life, by destiny a soul may encounter one of the limbs of devotional service.  By chance he may fast on ekadasi, or see and touch a holy place, receive a pure devotee as a guest, or hear the holy names of Lord Hari, or the descriptions of Him, or songs about Him from the mouths of saintly devotees who have Lord Hari as their only possession.  If a person performs these activities with a desire to attain material sense pleasures or impersonal liberation, he will not attain devotional service by performing them.  However, if an innocent person by chance performs these activities with any motive to use them to attain sense pleasure or impersonal liberation, then these activities will lead him to devotional service.  When these devotion-giving pious deeds accumulate after many births, one finally attains faith in pure devotional service.  Faith in pure devotional service creates the desire to associate with pure devotees.  By associating with devotees one gradually becomes engaged in sadhana (devotional service in practice) and bhajana (worship of the Lord).  By performing bhajana one gradually casts all unwanted material desires far away.  When material desires are cast far away, one attains pure faith.  When faith becomes more and more pure, one gradually attains 'ruci' (attraction to the Lord).  As one becomes more and more attracted to the beauty of the Lord, the attraction becomes transformed into attachment (asakti) to the Lord.  When this attachment becomes fully manifested, one attains ecstatic love (bhava or rati) for the Lord.  This ecstatic love turns into 'rasa' (the nectar mellows of a relationship with the Lord), which brings 'premotpatti' (pure love for the Lord).  This the root of devotional service is seeing and following pure devotees of the Lord.  The conclusion, then, is that in the beginning one associates with devotees.  Then one develops faith.  Then one continues to associate with devotees.  The result of associating with devotees is that one attains faith.  Faith is also known as surrender (saranapatti) to the Lord.  The first association with the devotees brings attraction to the places, times, things, and persons dear to Lord Hari.  The first association with devotees brings with it a faith that becomes manifested as surrender to the Lord.  This is seen in the Lord's final teaching in Bhagavad-gita (18.66):
	"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me.  I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions.  Do not fear."*
	Here the word "sarva-dharma" (all varieties of religion) refers to smarta-dharma (the rules of the smrti-sastras), astanga-yoga, sankhya, jnana (impersonal speculation), vairagya (renunciation), and all other like varieties of religion.  None of these kinds of religion is able to fulfil the soul's true spiritual needs.  Therefore in the Gita it is written that these religions should be abandoned.  In pravrtti-sraddha (positive faith) one thinks, "I know that Lord Krsna, whose form is the perfection of eternity, knowledge, and bliss, and who enjoys pastimes in Vraja, is the spirit souls' only goal.  Therefore, completely rejecting material sense gratification, impersonal liberation, and any other non-devotional goal, with unalloyed spiritual love I now surrender unto Him."  When this kind of faith arises, one becomes the humble follower of a saintly Vaisnava.  In this way one surrenders to a saintly Vaisnava spiritual master.
	Vrajanatha: What are the soul's anarthas (unwanted things)?"
	Babaji: There are four kinds of anarthas: 1. sva-svarupa-aprapti (things that prevent one from reviving one's original spiritual nature), 2. asat-trsna (thirst for material things), 3. aparadha (offenses), and 4. hrdaya-daurbalya (weakness of heart).  Forgetting "I am pure, a particle of spirit, a servant of Lord Krsna, the imprisoned soul goes far away from his original nature.  That the first anartha: sva-svarupa-aprapti.  One may think "I am material, and these material objects are my property".  In this way one thirsts for happiness in the realm of material things.  This is called asat-trsna.  The three kinds of asat-trsna are: 1. desire for good children and descendants, 2. desire for wealth and 3. desire to reside in Svargaloka.  The ten kinds of aparadhas (offenses) I will describe later.  From hrdaya-daurbalya (weakness of heart) come lamentation and a host of other problems.  These four anarthas are the natural property of a soul shackled by material ignorance.  By associating with devotees and cultivating Krsna consciousness, the soul gradually throws these anarthas far away.  The path of yoga, which consists of the four parts pratyahara (withdrawal from sense-objects), yama (self-control), niyama (restraint), and vairagya (renunciation), is not an easy path to follow.  It is filled with problems.  It does not easily lead to the final goal.  On the other hand, cultivating Krsna consciousness in the association of devotees is an easy path to follow.  It easily eclipses anarthas and materialism.  When materialism is eclipsed, the original form of the soul is spontaneously manifested.
	Vrajanatha: Should persons free of anarthas be called 'liberated'?
	Babaji: Please reflect on these words of Srimad Bhagavatam (6.14.3-5):
	"In this material world there are many living entities as atoms.  Among these living entities, very few are human beings, and among them, few are interested in following religious principles.*
	"O best of brahmanas, Sukadeva Gosvami, out of many persons who follow religious principles, only a few desire liberation from the material world.  Among many thousands who desire liberation, one may actually achieve liberation, giving up material attachment to society, friendship, love, country, home, wife and children.  And among many thousands of such liberated persons, one who can understand the true meaning of liberation is very rare.*
	"O great sage, among many millions who are liberated and perfect in knowledge of liberation, one may be a devotee of Lord Narayana, or Krsna.  Such devotees, who are fully peaceful, are extremely rare."*
	Only pure devotees are really free of anarthas.  Such devotees are very rare.  One must search among many millions and millions of liberated souls to find one who is a devotee of Lord Krsna.  Therefore in this material world there is no group more difficult to associate with than the devotees of Lord Krsna.
	Vrajanatha: Does the word "Vaisnava" refer only to a Vaisnava who has renounced family life?
	Babaji: The Vaisnava refers to a pure devotee of Lord Krsna.  Such a devotee may be either a householder or a sannyasi.  He may be a brahmana or a candala (outcaste).  He may be wealthy or poverty stricken.  To the extent that he has pure devotion to Lord Krsna, to that extent he is a pure devotee.
	Vrajanatha: You have explained that the souls swallowed up by Maya are of five kinds.  In those five kinds of souls imprisoned by Maya, you included the sadhana-bhaktas (devotees in the stage of devotional service in practice) and bhava-bhaktas (devotees in the stage of spiritual love).  Which devotees are released from Maya's prison?
	Babaji: From the moment he begins to live as a devotee of the Lord, the soul may be said to be released from Maya's prison.  However, the final stage of release from Maya's prison is only attained when one attains the final stage of mature devotion to the Lord.  Before that one is situated in the preliminary stage of release from Maya's prison.  When the gross (sthula-sarira) and subtle (linga-sarira) material bodies are both finally broken, the soul attains the final stage of release from Maya's prison.  By practicing sadhana-bhakti (the practical activities of devotional service) one gradually attains bhava-bhakti (spiritual love of God).  When bhava-bhakti becomes strong and firm, the soul is able, at the time of leaving the gross body, to leave the subtle body also and be situated in his original spiritual form.  Because material life lingers during the stage of sadhana-bhakti, and because it is not yet completely removed even in the beginning stages of bhava-bhakti, the sadhana-bhaktas and bhava-bhaktas are included among the five kinds of souls swallowed by Maya.  The materialists and the impersonalists are certainly to be counted among the souls swallowed by Maya.  Among the liberated souls, they who have attained liberation by engaging in devotional service to Lord Hari have alone attained the true perfection of liberation.  A soul who commits offenses and is therefore imprisoned by Maya forgets "I am a servant of Lord Krsna".  That forgetfulness is the root from which his offenses grow.  Without the mercy of Krsna, that soul is not excused from his offense.  In the same way, with the mercy of Lord Krsna, that soul will not be released from Maya's prison.  The impersonalist sampradaya's faith that by cultivating impersonal speculation they will attain liberation.  That faith is groundless.  Without first attaining Lord Krsna's mercy, no one is released from Maya's prison.  In Srimad Bhagavatam (10.2.32-33) the demigods speak these two verses to explain this truth:
	"O lotus eye one, those who think they are liberated in this life but do not render devotional service to You must be of impure intelligence.  Although they accept severe austerities and penances to rise to the spiritual position, to impersonal Brahman realisation, the fall down again because they neglect to worship Your lotus feet.*
	"O Madhava, Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord of the goddess of fortune, if devotees completely in love with You sometimes fall from the path of devotion, they do not fall like non devotees, for You still protect them.  Thus they fearlessly traverse the heads of their opponents and continue to progress in devotional service."*
	Vrajanatha: What are the different kinds of souls free of Maya's prison?
	Babaji: The souls free from Maya's prison are of two kinds: 1. nitya-mukta (the souls who were never placed in Maya's prison), and 2. baddha-mukta (the souls who were at one time imprisoned, but now are free).  The nitya-mukta souls may be divided into two groups: 1. aisvarya-gata (souls who appreciate the Lord's feature of opulence), and 2. madhurya gata (souls who appreciate the Lord's feature of sweetness).  The aisvarya-gata nitya-mukta souls are personal associates of Lord Narayana, the master of Vaikuntha.  They are particles of spiritual effulgence emanated from Lord Mula-Sankarsana, who resides in Vaikuntha.  The madhurya-gata nitya-mukta souls are personal associates of Lord Krsna, the master of Goloka Vrndavana.  They are particles of spiritual effulgence manifested from Lord Baladeva, who resides in Goloka Vrndavana.  The baddha-mukta souls (who were once imprisoned but now are free) are of three kinds: 1. aisvarya-gata (souls who appreciate the Lord's feature of opulence), 2. madhurya-gata (souls who appreciate the Lord's feature of sweetness), and 3. brahmajyotir-gata (souls situated within the Lord's spiritual effulgence).  Souls who during their period of practicing sadhana-bhakti are attracted to the Lord's opulence become eternal associates of Lord Narayana, the master of Vaikuntha.  They attain salokya-mukti (the liberation of residing on the same planet as the Lord).  Souls who during their period of practicing sadhana-bhakti are attracted to the Lord's sweetness, after liberation enjoy the sweetness of direct service to Lord Krsna in the eternal spiritual abode of Vrndavana and other like abodes.  Souls who during their period of sadhana are attracted to become one with the Lord, after liberation attain brahma-sayujya-mukti (the liberation of merging with the Lord).  In this way these souls are completely destroyed.
	Vrajanatha: What is the final destination of the soul who is a devotee of Lord Gaura-kisora (Lord Caitanya)?
	Babaji: Krsna and Gaura-kisora are not different.  They are both shelters of the feature of sweetness (madhurya-rasa).  They do have one difference.  Madhurya-rasa (the Lord's sweetness) has two features: 1. madhurya (sweetness), and 2. audarya (mercy).  When sweetness is prominent, Lord Krsna is manifested.  When mercy is prominent, Lord Gauranga is manifested.  The spiritual world of Vrndavana is divided into two abodes: 1. the abode of Lord Krsna, and 2. the abode of Lord Gaura.  The eternally perfect and eternally liberated souls who have sweetness first and mercy second reside in Lord Krsna's abode.  They are Lord Krsna's associates.  The eternally perfect and eternally liberated souls who have mercy first and sweetness second reside in Lord Gaura's abode.  They are Lord Gaura's associates.  Some souls manifest two forms and reside in both abodes simultaneously.  Other souls manifest only one form and are present in one of the abodes and not in the other.  Souls who during the time of sadhana worship only Lord Gaura, at the time of attaining perfection go to Lord  Gaura's abode and serve Him there.  Souls who during the time of sadhana worship only Lord Krsna, at the time of attaining perfection go to Lord Krsna's abode and serve Him there.  Souls who during the time of sadhana worship both Lord Krsna and Lord Gaura, at the time of attaining perfection manifest two forms, go to both Lord Krsna's abode and Lord Gaura's abode, and in their two forms serve the two Lord's simultaneously in both places.  This truth: that Lord Gaura and Lord Krsna are simultaneously one and different from each other, is a very confidential secret.
	After hearing these teachings about the souls released from Maya's prison, Vrajanatha, now filled with ecstatic love, fell at the feet of the elderly Vaisnava and stayed there for some minutes.  Weeping and sweeping, the saintly babaji picked up Vrajanatha and firmly embraced him.  A good portion of the night had already passed.  Taking leave of the babaji, Vrajanatha returned home.  Travelling on the path, he deeply thought about the soul's final destination.  When he returned home and was taking his meal, he said to his grandmother, "Grandmother, if you wish to continue seeing me, you should stop all this talk of marriage and you should not allow Vani-Madhava to come here.  He is my bitter enemy.  Tomorrow I will refuse to talk with him.  You also should ignore him."  Vrajanatha's grandmother was intelligent.  Thinking about her conversation during the daytime with Vani-Madhava and what Vrajanatha has just told her, she decided to stop the marriage.  She could see that if too much pressure was placed on him, Vrajanatha would go to Varanasi or Vrndavana.  That she did not wish.  She decided" "What will be, will be."